On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Melvin Carvalho
<[email protected]>wrote:

>
>
>
> On 18 September 2013 18:06, Nick Jennings <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 18 September 2013 15:47, Nick Jennings <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 September 2013 19:45, Nick Jennings <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Carlo, nice to see this work being done, specifically a
>>>>>> distributed pubsub implementation. Do you have a repo where this is being
>>>>>> developed? Also is this just the beginning or is there something working
>>>>>> already?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One question regarding ActivityStreams below:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 6:41 PM, carlo von lynX <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the same time as the implementation of this fundamental piece of
>>>>>>> the GNU Internet is taking place, we will soon present the equivalent of
>>>>>>> the ActivityStreams protocol, enabling developers to create user 
>>>>>>> interfaces
>>>>>>> and further applications on top of an infrastructure that provides 
>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>> social functionality as the social services we are familiar with, but 
>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>> distributed and encrypted fashion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm unclear why it makes sense to re-invent the ActivityStreams
>>>>>> protocol? There is nothing in it's nature that defines infrastructure, so
>>>>>> being distributed and/or encrypted is something that can build on-top of
>>>>>> the existing protocol, also something I'm working closely with in 
>>>>>> Sockethub.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Activity streams is not a protocol
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That depends on who you ask, from the Wikipedia page:
>>>>
>>>>     " The Activity 
>>>> Streams<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activity_Streams_%28format%29>project,
>>>>  for example, is an effort to develop an activity stream
>>>> protocol <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_%28computing%29> to
>>>> syndicate activities across social 
>>>> Web<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Web>applications.
>>>> [2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activity_stream#cite_note-2> "
>>>>
>>>> While I agree there's more to a protocol than just the data format,
>>>> there's definitely work being done to make the content of the AS objects
>>>> indicate either intent or result, which lays the groundwork for a protocol.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a data serialization.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> While basically true, I'm not sure that's a descriptive enough word, as
>>>> JSON itself is a data serialization method.
>>>>
>>>> I was using the same words Carlo used to reference it, and I don't have
>>>> a strong opinion either way, but I don't think using the term serialization
>>>> makes it any clearer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The current version relies on a proprietary central registry of verbs
>>>>> which does not (currently) support any form of encryption as far as I know
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If AS is a protocol, then I don't understand why a definition of verbs
>>>> should be considered proprietary or centralized - in the same way that any
>>>> other protocol, be it HTTP, SMTP or FINGER, has a set of defined commands.
>>>>
>>>> If AS is a data serialization mechanism, I don't understand how it can
>>>> written it to "support for any form of encryption". Are the two related?
>>>> Does JSON itself have built in support for encryption that AS lacks? Could
>>>> you give me some examples of data serialization which supports encryption?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I misunderstand what is meant by the original statement by Carlo,
>>>> but that's why I asked in the first place.
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Depending on who you speak to" is hedging your bets a bit!
>>>
>>> I was speaking to you, what's your take?  Is activity streams a protocol
>>> or not?
>>>
>>>
>> I'm more interested in my original question, not whether AS is a protocol
>> or not. Like I said, I don't have a strong opinion either way.
>>
>>
> OK, then why did you argue the case?
>
>
I'm not arguing any case, I just pointed out that many people, including
the OP and Wikipedia refer to AS as a protocol. I really don't care what
people call it. Maybe you could ask Carlo why he chose those words.


HTTP is the protocol, Activity Streams is the serialization.  A
> (communications) protocol is way more complex than a serialization.
>

I'm fully aware of the differences between serialization and protocols.



> And if this is what you want to do with sockethub / activity stream, I
> think you're going to run into major issues.
>
> My comment was that the Activity Streams specification does not mention
> encryption anywhere.
>
> You are the person that said: "being distributed and/or encrypted is
> something that can build on-top of the existing protocol" ... "something
> I'm working closely with in Sockethub"
>
> I have doubts about this comment ... how do you intend to build encryption
> on-top of Activity Streams?
>

You have doubts that I'm working closely with implementing encryption
wherever I can? I'm sorry to hear that, but I asked my original question to
perhaps gain some insight into what shortcomings AS has in regards to being
implemented in a distributed, encrypted infrastructure.

As in, what characteristics about a protocol or serialization method lend
itself to encryption or make it more difficult, and why does it really
matter what a payload is within an encrypted channel.

I think it should be considered with care when deciding to re-implement
something that already exists, like AS, to serve the same purpose. So I was
curious as to what the thought process was, and asked the question in the
hopes I might learn something new.

I don't really want to continue to get caught up in semantics with you
about wording of protocol vs. serialization, as it's completely unrelated
to my question.

Cheers
Nick

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