That’s an interesting take—I usually see people swinging for too LONG, and
specifically see swings running over as one of the main culprits of dance
timing muddiness. Probably a combination of: swinging is fun, it’s a
variable number of rotations (ie no clear end point), and it may take
beginners a sec to get the hand/foot position right. So when dance timing
is slipping, my go-to is to start more clearly prompting the first move
after the swing, esp. the partner swing.

For whatever that’s worth!

Cheers,
Maia (Brooklyn, NY)

--
Maia McCormick (she/her)
917.279.8194


On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 4:40 PM Neal Schlein <[email protected]> wrote:

> Robert—
> I’m thinking there are three things you may be working to counteract:
>
> 1. Rushing to the swing/the “easy bits” of the dance.  If the dancers
> don’t perceive each part of the sequence as equally important or
> interesting, they will often attempt to shorten the distance to the next
> part; flowing segments are the natural casualty. This is also trained
> behavior, learned from exposure to music and tight choreography that
> rewards or forces “clipped” endings for flowing figures like heys or rushed
> contra corners. I don’t know how to alter this in a simple, clean way
> except by repeatedly not programming such choreography.
>
> 2. Driving or low-phrased music.  This is regional, and in my opinion the
> dance tunes played in different places in our country are getting smooshed
> stylistically, but there are differences.  When I lived in Illinois, for
> example, the music tended toward a hard driven beat with less intra- and
> sometimes extra-phrase distinction. I personally felt it was infinitely
> better for squares because it made contras became mushy, especially on long
> and flowing parts (which is choreography I tend to appreciate…and then
> people would rush to the swings). That outcome didn’t seem to bother anyone
> other than me, though.
>
> 3. Dropping out/style of calling.  When we start to drop out, it gives
> more latitude to the dancers to make their own decisions about timing—which
> are then dictated by the band (music phrasing), their attitude toward the
> choreography (rush to the good parts), and their skill (easier to
> execute=faster potential execution).  You can try to keep calling longer
> and provide more direction….which might also result in a riot, depending on
> the dancers. (Here in Colorado I have the reverse: a group that threatens
> homicide if I ever leave out a single call.)
>
> Neal Schlein
> Librarian, MSLIS
> Colorado
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 2:44 AM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Robert, are you looking for tips beyond the basic “clear, well-phrased,
>> LONG/well-in-advance calls”? That’s probably the biggest thing, in my
>> mind—a nice long (3-4 beat) call in advance of the move that often lags, to
>> give dancers some heads up. (And of course, identifying ahead of time what
>> parts of the dance that are likely to get smeary.)
>>
>> You might be able to preempt some of the timing issues in teaching. Eg
>> “take JUST FOUR STEPS down the hall, it’s shorter than you think” etc, but
>> honestly that kind of thing flies right out of people’s heads when the
>> music starts.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Maia in Brooklyn
>>
>>
>> --
>> Maia McCormick (she/her)
>> 917.279.8194
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 2:51 AM Luke Donforth via Contra Callers <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for giving the new dance a spin! I haven't even tried it with
>>> people yet :-)
>>>
>>> Robert, I'm reminded of George Wilson's beginner lesson where he talks
>>> explicitly about the connection between the music and the dancing, and
>>> makes the timing explicit:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14nxFdcaKWA
>>>
>>> Thanks again all,
>>> Luke
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 3:25 PM Robert Matson via Contra Callers <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Like Harris recently did, we plan to try Star Trek Phaser for our
>>>> beginner-heavy college contra next week.  Thanks for writing and posting
>>>> it, Luke.
>>>>
>>>> We often find that our dancers get off-phrase, especially with flowy
>>>> dances, like this one.  Is that what causes the challenge with the oval in
>>>> this dance?
>>>>
>>>> We have the benefit of choosing our music program at the same time as
>>>> our dance program.  So, our Plan A for flowy dances is to choose a tune set
>>>> with clear differentiation between the 8-bar phrases and some sort of
>>>> punctuation at the start or end of each phrase.  (Maybe a tune set
>>>> like this one. <https://youtu.be/ADQq_nqqHik?si=UX83w43tUtd8pw6x&t=151>
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> From the perspective of callers, what would be a few tips that help
>>>> ensure flowy dances don't get off-phrase or would help in a case like
>>>> Harris'?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>
>>>> Robert Matson
>>>> Cell: (917) 626-2675
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 12:51 AM Harris Lapiroff via Contra Callers <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I called Star Trek Phraser at a beginner-heavy college dance last
>>>>> weekend and it worked quite well! The only thing I noticed was that I had
>>>>> to keep jumping in to keep the oval on time (dancers kept trying to shift
>>>>> it to A2) and even still it got pretty messy. But it's a nice whole-set
>>>>> moment that I think is worth it. (And for attentive beginners I think it
>>>>> also reveals something to them about the structure of the dance.) I was
>>>>> surprised and pleased by how well beginners were able to handle the
>>>>> star-to-star transition, quick though it is!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for that one, Luke!
>>>>>
>>>>> Harris Lapiroff
>>>>>
>>>>> Dance Caller and Organizer
>>>>> Boston Intergenerational Dance Advocates Board (Cambridge MA)
>>>>> Pinewoods Camp, Inc Board (Plymouth MA)
>>>>> https://chromamine.com/contra/
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2024, at 8:08 PM, Luke Donforth via Contra Callers
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I continue to turn this one over in my head, and I think I've got a
>>>>> new one (borrowing heavily from Bob Isaac's *To Turn a Phrase* and
>>>>> the star-to-star transition of Mick Richardson's *Star Trek*)
>>>>>
>>>>> Star Trek Phraser
>>>>> by Luke Donforth
>>>>> Contra/Becket-CCW
>>>>>
>>>>> A1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Left hand Star
>>>>> (8) Whole set oval right
>>>>> A2 -----------
>>>>> (8) whole set oval Left
>>>>> (8) Groups of 4 Circle Left 1X
>>>>> B1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Partner Do-si-do
>>>>> (8) Partner swing
>>>>> B2 -----------
>>>>> (8) Long lines, forward and back
>>>>> (8) Left hand Star 1x, walk on to next star
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 7:55 PM <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://aptsg.org/Dance/dances.html#Balter
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 11:50 AM Luke Donforth via Contra Callers <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Oftentimes at One Night Gigs, I'll do a mix of circle and longways set
>>>>> dances. With scatter mixers and specialty dances, I can fill an evening.
>>>>> But sometimes I get a group that "wants contras" or is looking to grow
>>>>> their familiarity with the dance form.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Becket dances without lark/robin distinctions and no neighbor
>>>>> swing are AN easy option into "hands-four" contras. There are other ways
>>>>> in, but I'm looking for more Beckets that match that description. For a
>>>>> while I've had "Pluck It" in my box as a friendly option:
>>>>>
>>>>> Pluck It
>>>>> Contra/Becket-CW
>>>>>
>>>>> A1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Circle Left
>>>>> (8) Circle Right
>>>>> A2 -----------
>>>>> (8) Left hand Star
>>>>> (8) Right hand Star
>>>>> B1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Partner Do-si-do
>>>>> (8) Partner swing
>>>>> B2 -----------
>>>>> (8) Neighbor Do-si-do across set
>>>>> (8) Long lines, yearn left
>>>>>
>>>>> This is, in my opinion, pretty close to the traditional mixer Scatter
>>>>> Shot but done as a keeper in Becket. (It does have a DSD across the set,
>>>>> which in a recent thread was listed as a no-no for some callers. While I
>>>>> wouldn't use that move at a dance weekend, for One Night gigs I think it's
>>>>> accessible and acceptable). You don't have to teach ballroom swing, and if
>>>>> folks want to elbow swing and swap roles with their partner it doesn't
>>>>> really impact the dance (this is a small advantage of Becket over improper
>>>>> for this type of dance; different position on the side is less 
>>>>> disorienting
>>>>> than different side of the set).
>>>>>
>>>>> What other Becket dances do folks have that don't rely on roles? No
>>>>> larks allemande or robins chain, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the drive home from my gig last night I came up with this one
>>>>> (which may already exist), written for Naomi who organizes the community
>>>>> dance I was at:
>>>>>
>>>>> A Pillar of Weathersfield
>>>>> Contra/Becket-CW
>>>>>
>>>>> A1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Balance the ring and spin to the right (petronella)
>>>>> (8) Balance the ring and spin to the right (petronella)
>>>>> A2 -----------
>>>>> (16) Partner balance and swing, end facing down the hall
>>>>> B1 -----------
>>>>> (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples)
>>>>> (8) Return and face across
>>>>> B2 -----------
>>>>> (8) Long lines, forward and back
>>>>> (8) Promenade across the Set, turn as a couple and progress
>>>>> (Go between the ones you danced with, passing by left shoulder, and
>>>>> the new couple on your right, turn to take hands with new couple)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be curious what else folks have that they use for entry-level
>>>>> contras when you don't have a critical mass of experience for improper
>>>>> dances with neighbor swings.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> Luke Donforth
>>>>> Burlington, VT
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Luke Donforth
>>>>> [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>> [email protected]
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Luke Donforth
>>> [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> [email protected]
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

Reply via email to