Le mar 12/08/2003 à 14:26, Buchan Milne a écrit : > FACORAT Fabrice wrote: > > I just wonder if kernel-multimedia should not be included by default > > when the user make a desktop install ( ok, there is not really a > > desktop/server class during install, so maybe propose if the user want > > to optimise is system for multimedia and if Y, then install > > kernel-multimedia instead of standard kernel ). > > mm kernel is in contrib => not on CDs.
so it may be on CD. > > Here are my points : > > - normal user need a working supermount ( no erratic CDROM/floppy > > access pb, no pb when transfering a large file from CDROM to HD ). Most > > of the time we advise mdk to newbies because they will have a simple > > installation, good config tools, and ... supermount. Indeed newcomers > > don't appreciate and understand well mount/umount mecanism and they are > > fed up with it when they try to change the CD and they can't because of > > a console or even fam after having access it wia konqueror. So > > supermount-ng is interesting for them. > > Supermount should work in the stock kernel, or should be removed. > MCSE-style server administrators also want reliable access to CDs. supermount is not a necessity, and MSCE-style server administrators are bad IMHO. > > - normal user are doing : web surfing, multimedia ( mp3/ogg, > > avi/divx/qt ). That's why in each review reviewers complain about the > > fact RH remove mp3 support in their distro. For this kind of activities, > > good interactivity is a plus. so 0(1) secheduler, low-latency patches > > are interesting. > > But mp3 support has nothing to do with kernel patches really. yeah, it as to do with putting bledding edge features, and what desktop users wants. RH target enterprise ( workstation/server ) and most of the time they don't need mp3 and in order to not have pb with patents ( USA lawyers are sometimes crazy ) they don't put mp3. But desktop users complains about that. > > standard kernel should be for server like activities : best stability, > > throughput, acl, security, scalability. You don't need supermount on a > > server, or low latency. > > > > [*] Note : kernel enterprise is suitable is you have more than 1Gb of > > RAM. if your server have less, you end up with normal kernel, so > > kernel-enterprise is for server with ... many RAM. > > Now if with HIGHMEM support a kernel is not slower or too slower than a > > kernel without it, standard kernel could be remove and so u have just > > kernel-enterprise, kernel-smp and kernel-secure. > > What about low-end servers?? We have a P133/32MB firewall (currently > MNF8.2), I don't want to lose some ram to HIGHMEM support. so that's why I ask if there are issues with HIGHMEM support. So you point one ( mem consumption ). others one ? Now you can even balances advantages/issues in order to see what to do. Does mdksoft want to target low-end server, etc ... > Hmmm, should be more stable than the competition, which is not trivial > these days. at least more stable than windows. stable enough means to me that if you can't have an uptime of 2 years with a daily normal use, it's not a problem. > > > So I understand if Juan Quintela don't want to include supermount-ng, > > Instead, include a supermount with known bugs? It's what mdksoft do and seems to keep doing ... > > low-latency and maybe other fancy stuff. But for desktop user ... it's > > good for server, maybe workstation, but not for desktop user. Most of > > the time they want bleeding edge. Ok, mdk provide kernel-multimedia on > > third CD, and ? Are you going to tell the user to install by hand this > > kernel after the install ? and if they are using for example nvidia > > drivers ? they install kernel-multimedia, reboot, black screen, "help, > > help ... blabla - you need to reinstall nvidia drivers - how can i do it > > ? > > Well where did they get NVidia drivers for their kernel? http://www.nvidia.com and most of them will go there, and most people will advise them to go there, and as windows users they will tend to go there. > We could > consider making NVidia driver RPMS for mm kernel for Club for example. maybe, but most of them won't be in mdkclub. > > bla bla - bla bla bla " and so on on IRC/forum/ML. No this need to be > > done at install stage, before XFree install installation in order to > > cope with this kind of pb. > > swiss knife are good ( mdk may be considered as the swiss knife of linux > > ), but with a swiss knife you can't do all that you want if you want to > > cook well or be more than McGiver. > > IMHO, Juan needs to apply the patches sent to him, otherwise the stock > kernel has problems in either role. providing one kernel for desktop/workstation/server is bad idea as aims are not the same. tmp/mm kernel are usefull for desktop users, but not for enterprise users. 0(1) as corner case pbs, the same for low-latency and/or preempt patches, etc ... > Mandrakesoft may not want to officially support the -mm kernel (means > providing/testing kernel updates for it also). That's the pb. mdksoft target desktop/server/workstation market. But when you look at the distro it's like a batard, it's not natural. i.e u can use for desktop, but it miss some things. You can use it for server but all this bleeding edge packages make u feel that you may end up with something not sure. mdksoft at this time seems to not have the ability to cope with this ( they need maybe more people and of course more more money ). mdk have choice to do. they want desktop ? so they should do more like Lindows/Xandros. Look what happen with Wal-Mart. Lindows is best fit for desktop ( customised, windows like, less apps leaving for clarity ). they want workstation/server ? so they should do as Suse ( special workstation edition, fully customise ) or RH. They want want firewall market ? do a special version for firewall. They do it well with SNF/MNF. The product is customise and provide config tools customised for it. They need to see what they want to target. When they know they should customised the distro for them and thus by providing several specific distro. With their swiss knife you will have people using it but IT and big vendors not. Look the HP deal. They provide mdk on their workstation but not on their server, they'd rather use Suse ( or RH ). Why ? notoriety, specific products customised for this task.
