Hi Deb,

In your DISCUSS, you have highlighted four issues. At least three of
these have been addressed via
https://github.com/ietf-scitt/draft-birkholz-cose-tsa-tst-header-parameter/pull/61.

Correspondingly, I-D.ietf-cose-tsa-tst-header-parameter-07 reflects
these changes. We hope that issues 2, 3 and 4 in your DISCUSS
are addressed.

This leaves issue 1: "Names of modes".

The authors discussed this feedback extensively — and I mean
_extensively_.  Unfortunately, the author's opinion holds (where
"signing" means "COSE"), as follows:

"COSE Than Timestamp" (CTT) and "Timestamp Than COSE" (TCC) are as
simple and intuitive as they get. To further address the concerns
raised, we have created a new subsection of the Security Considerations:
§5.1 "Avoiding Semantic Confusion", which is referenced from the very
first paragraph of §1.1 "Use Cases". This presents text suggested by
Stefan for further clarification. For convenience, we quote this
text here:

Implementers MUST clearly differentiate between RFC 3161 TSA:
timestamps proving the existence of payload data at an earlier point
in time (TTC), and timestamps that explicitly provide evidence of the
existence of the cryptographic signature (CTT).  Failure to clearly
Failure to distinguish between these timestamp semantics can result in
vulnerabilities, such as incorrectly accepting signatures created
after key revocation based on older payload-only timestamps.
Validators must not interpret protected-header payload timestamps as
proof of signature creation time, and should rely exclusively on RFC
3161 TSA timestamps explicitly cover signature data.
determining signature validity timing


We expect readers to read the specification, and we believe that we have
introduced a clear distinction between modes and the sequence of
content. We have also introduced a prioritization of modes of use. Any
further attempt to address your comment resulted in less readable text
or redundant reminders in the English text about which mode applies in
which context. This does not seem to be a naming problem, but a
presentation problem. We sincerely hope that the compromise in version
-07 is sufficient to address your concerns by improving the
presentation.


For the I-D.ietf-cose-tsa-tst-header-parameter editors,

Henk

On 05.08.25 21:19, Deb Cooley via Datatracker wrote:
Deb Cooley has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-cose-tsa-tst-header-parameter-06: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to Stefan Santesson for the repeated secdir reviews.  These reviews have
driven change to create a better specification.  The authors are lucky to have
drawn a reviewer that is well versed in the subject of timestamps.  I'm not
sure it is possible to completely eliminate the issue of a choosing the wrong
method, but I hope recent changes have made it harder for the developer to make
that mistake.  I will make a few comments which I hope will make it a tiny bit
harder.

Names of modes:  Stefan points out that the two mode names are similar, perhaps
too similar.  Instead of choosing the mode names by the order of operation,
maybe mode names that describe the operation.  Perhaps 'certificate timestamps'
and 'unsigned statement timestamps', recognizing that these don't create nice
acronyms, and that it is a pretty pervasive change to the draft.

Section 1.1:  Add a sentence to the first para that this specification outlines
the original mode and a new mode, where the security characteristics are
different so care needs to be taken to choose the appropriate mode.

Section 1.1, para 2&3:  Please consider stating that this use case is the
primary, or original use case that most implementations will use. Something
like 'The original use case....'  and then 'This primary usage scenario
motivates....'

Section 1.1, para 4&5:  Please consider stating that this is a new use case for
very specific purposes.  Something like 'The new use case...' and then 'This
new usage scenario....'


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Section 1.1, para 4:  A small clarification, if the TST is acquired before the
statement is signed, then the relying party knows that the statement was signed
by the issuer 'not before' the times specified by the TSA.  This is an early
bound (vice a no later bound in the first case).




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