Lizanne,
I assume you are looking for John W McGarvey’s place of birth in Ireland? Most RC parish records in Ireland are on-line these days, both on the nli site and on Ancestry. So if you have checked those sources and found nothing then the likely explanation is probably that he was born in a parish like where there are no records for the year he was born. There’s no easy way round that. As I suggested to Francesca, perhaps you might make a breakthrough with DNA. If you match with someone who knows more about their ancestor’s origins, you might narrow the place of birth that way. Otherwise I can’t suggest any others sources in Ireland that might provide you with any clues. Do you know John’s parents names from his marriage or death certificate? Or a Naturalisation application? Perhaps his parents’ death certificates record where in Ireland they were born? Elwyn On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 11:21, Lizanne Smith via CoTyroneList < cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > Elwyn, > Thank you for your advice concerning records and date of birth in 19th > century Ireland. Attached is my great grandfather's > Civil War pension affidavit of his age. My only other record is his > immigration record as a passenger in 1851 listing him as 3 years old. > Lizanne Smith > > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 4:52 AM elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList < > cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > > As additional information about the unreliability of dates of birth etc, > > here’s a couple more examples which show the situation in the 1800s: > > > > > > > > Alexander Irvine was born in 1863 in Antrim town and became a Minister > > living in the US. This extract from his book “The Chimney Corner > revisited” > > perhaps explains why people often had to guess their ages: > > > > > > > > *“My mother kept a mental record of the twelve births. None of us ever > > knew, or cared to know, when we were born. When I heard of anybody in the > > more fortunate class celebrating a birthday I considered it a foolish > > imitation of the Queen’s birthday, which rankled in our little minds with > > 25th December or 12th July. In manhood there were times when I had to > prove > > I was born somewhere, somewhen, and then it was that I discovered that I > > also had a birthday. The clerk of the parish informed me.”* > > > > > > > > I have also attached a letter which I found in parish records in PRONI > (the > > public record office) in Belfast from someone in Pettigoe, Co. Donegal in > > 1908 writing to his Minister, asking for proof of age (ie a baptismal > > certificate). All he knew was that he was between “70 and 78 years of > age.” > > He clearly had only the vaguest idea and couldn’t narrow it down to > within > > 9 years. (The likely reason for the letter was that the old age pension > was > > being introduced in 1909 for people aged 70 and over. Documentary proof > of > > age was required. Thus, probably for the first time in his life, > > establishing his age accurately became relevant to him). > > > > > > > > > > Elwyn > > > > On Fri, 8 May 2020 at 03:56, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList < > > cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > > > > Re birth dates, > > > > > > In researching the family history, I have noticed, at least in the case > > > of notable ancestors, that the date of death is often known precisely > > > but birth dates are not - only years are available and even then one > > > must be circumspect. Apparently one's birth was unimportant as infant > > > survival rates were so low. Baptism gives a clue, but then may be long > > > after the birth, from a few weeks or months to maybe 20 years (in one > > > case)! > > > > > > Gordon > > > > > > On 7/05/2020 11:04 pm, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote: > > > > Francesca, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As others have explained, Munterevlin/Munterdevlin is a general area > up > > > the > > > > west side of Lough Neagh. Mainly in Counties Tyrone & Derry. You can > > see > > > > what RC parishes there are in the general area from the attached two > > > maps: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/counties/rcmaps/tyronerc.php#maps/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/counties/rcmaps/derryrc.php#maps/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you click on each parish you will see what records exist. A > problem > > > you > > > > face is that not all parishes have records for 1850. For example, > > Ardtrea > > > > has a gap in its baptisms from 1843 to 1854. So it’s possible that > the > > > > reason you have been unable to find your Felix is because there is no > > > > record to find. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bear in mind too that in the 1800s most Irish people didn’t celebrate > > > > birthdays and often didn’t know exactly when they were born. If > > > officialdom > > > > later asked for a date of birth it wasn’t unknown for them to just > make > > > one > > > > up. So the date you have may not be quite correct. Do look a year or > > two > > > > either side of the information you have. And if you do find a > possible > > > > record it may only be the baptism date, not the date of birth. Not > all > > > > records in 1850 included date of birth. With RC baptisms the baptism > > > date > > > > should be very close to the birth date but again some flexibility is > > > > required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Possibly DNA testing may be a way of matching with others who have > > > > additional information about where the family originate. Family Tree > > DNA > > > > reportedly has more people with Ulster roots than any other company. > > That > > > > obviously increases the chances of finding a match. You might want to > > try > > > > them or, if you have already tested, you can transfer your results to > > > them > > > > for no fee. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The North of Ireland Family History Society is running an Ulster DNA > > > > project in conjunction with FTDNA and can offer testing kits at a > > reduced > > > > price. http://www.nifhs.org (Go to DNA project on the website). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elwyn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 7 May 2020 at 13:18, ECardwell via CoTyroneList < > > > > cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> From memory, Munterevlin was the general name of quite a large area > > of > > > >> north east County Tyrone, Arboe (Ardboe) would be a parish within > it. > > > Lots > > > >> of Quinns in that area. > > > >> > > > >> Evelyn Cardwell > > > >> > > > >> Get BlueMail for Android > > > >> > > > >> On 7 May 2020, 12:37, at 12:37, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList < > > > >> cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > > >>> Hello again Francesca, > > > >>> Jim McKane has suggested taking a look at > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > https://www.culturenorthernireland.org/article/1185/a-brief-history-of-ardboe > > > >>> for a reference to Munterevlin. > > > >>> > > > >>> Place Names of Northern Ireland is essential for locating obsolete > > sub > > > >>> denominations and long-forgotten placenames > > > >>> http://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=20934 and > > > >>> Munterevlin is mentioned in Arboe parish in 1609 at the time of the > > > >>> Plantation. Apparently mentioned in Ordnance Survey Memoirs c1835, > > but > > > >>> not in either the Arboe tithe applotment Book (1826) or Griffiths > > > >>> Valuation (c1860), so obviously declared obsolete and had fallen > out > > of > > > >>> use by that time. There are many Quinns recorded in the tithe book, > > > >>> including several with the given name of Felix. > > > >>> > > > >>> So then went to the online Arboe RC registers of baptisms > > > >>> https://www.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/arboe-rc3.html There > > are > > > >>> three Felix Quinns recorded and their townland of residence, but > none > > > >>> born in 1850. Perhaps your forebear took the knowledge of an old > > native > > > >>> place of birth, known only locally with him when he emigrated? > > > >>> > > > >>> Hope this helps………..second time lucky, > > > >>> Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > > > >>> Windows 10 > > > >>> > > > >>> From: Len Swindley<mailto:len_swind...@hotmail.com> > > > >>> Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2020 8:29 PM > > > >>> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing > > > >>> List<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> > > > >>> Cc: Francesca Piantadosi<mailto:francescawri...@icloud.com> > > > >>> Subject: RE: [CoTyroneMailingList] I'm trying to find my great > > > >>> grandfather Felix John Quinn > > > >>> > > > >>> Hello Francesca, > > > >>> > > > >>> There is no location or townland within Co Tyrone known as > > Munterevlin. > > > >>> Referring to the Alphabetical Index to the Townlands and Towns, > > > >>> Parishes and Baronies of Ireland (compiled in 1851 and still > > current), > > > >>> it is not recorded in any of the twenty-six counties, North or > South. > > > >>> How accurate do you believe your record to be? > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia > > > >>> > > > >>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > > > >>> Windows 10 > > > >>> > > > >>> From: Francesca Piantadosi via > > > >>> CoTyroneList<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> > > > >>> Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2020 6:44 PM > > > >>> To: > > > >>> cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com<mailto: > > > cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> > > > >>> Cc: Francesca Piantadosi<mailto:francescawri...@icloud.com> > > > >>> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] I'm trying to find my great > > grandfather > > > >>> Felix John Quinn > > > >>> > > > >>> I’m trying to find my grandfather Felix John Quinn born in > > Munterevlin, > > > >>> Ireland. I have his birthdate as April 7, 1850. He died in New York > > in > > > >>> 1896. > > > >>> > > > >>> I’ve probably spent over 60 hours pouring through documents or old > > > >>> microfiche but to no avail. > > > >>> > > > >>> He was Roman Catholic. I do know that but I still can’t find > > anything. > > > >>> Any ideas? > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks so much, > > > >>> > > > >>> Francesca Piantadosi > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> CoTyroneList Mailing List > > > >>> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > > > >>> Change Your Preferences: > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > > >>> Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> CoTyroneList Mailing List > > > >>> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > > > >>> Change Your Preferences: > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > > >>> Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> CoTyroneList Mailing List > > > >> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > > > >> Change Your Preferences: > > > >> > > > > > > http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > > >> Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > CoTyroneList Mailing List > > > > Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > > > > Change Your Preferences: > > > > > > http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > > > Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > > > > > > -- > > > _________________________________ > > > Nereda & Gordon Wilkinson, Hyde Park, South Australia. > > > Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon > <http://www.ozemail.com.au/%7Eneredon> < > http://www.ozemail.com.au/%7Eneredon> > > > Skype id: neredon > > > Emails: gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au > > > nereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > CoTyroneList Mailing List > > > Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > > > Change Your Preferences: > > > > > > http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > > Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CoTyroneList Mailing List > > Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > > Change Your Preferences: > > > http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > > > _______________________________________________ > CoTyroneList Mailing List > Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > Change Your Preferences: > http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY > _______________________________________________ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
