Hi Rick, you asked for an example of "Representatives of [Name] being listed in relation to tenancies. The example I’ve seen is when the Altmore Estate was auctioned in 1872 and the sale prospectus listed all the existing lease agreements including one over an Altmore property i.n.o. Robert McKittrick where the Tenants Names are recorded as "Representatives of Robert McKittrick". This document is available on subscription through Find My Past Landed Estates Court Rentals1850-1885. By 1860 and Griffith, Robert’s son John (don’t think he was the eldest) is in Occupation of the property and by 1869 Robert had died, but in 1872 the lease agreement with Reps of Robert McKittrick was still being relied upon.
Regards Peter McKittrick > On 28 Jun 2020, at 8:33 am, Peter McKittrick <petermck...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Rick, good topic. The only thing I’ve noticed is that the lessee is sometimes > described as “Representatives of.....“ May be to avoid having to draw up a > new lease until it was absolutely necessary say when the lessor changed. > > Peter > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 28 Jun 2020, at 6:20 am, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList >> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: >> >> Hello all …I've been having difficulty finding information concerning how >> tenancy was passed along from generation to generation on the plantation >> farms. What was the legal framework for inheriting the lease on the farm >> that the family had been occupying … in our case for at least 150 years >> prior to the land acts at the end of the 19th century? Hoping somebody might >> be able to steer me somewhere on this issue. >> Also, any insight on how a decision was made within a family regarding which >> son (or daughter) would assume responsibility for the lease? >> Thanks, as always … >> Rick Smoll >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: elwyn soutter <elwynsout...@googlemail.com> >> To: James McKane <jamck...@gmail.com> >> Cc: Rick Smoll <rsmoll...@aim.com>; CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List >> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> >> Sent: Thu, Jun 11, 2020 8:21 pm >> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633 >> >> Rick, Ballyboe is from the Irish words “Baile bo”meaning “cow land.” >> According to Philip Robinson - “The Plantation of Ulster”,a ballyboe was “A >> small Irish land division which, before the plantation,represented the >> territory within which several families worked the land.Although the real >> area of the ballyboe varied greatly with the quality of theland, it was >> assumed by the plantation surveyors to contain 60 acres ofprofitable land in >> most areas of north-west Ulster. Many modern townlands haveevolved from >> these ballyboes.” Not all land in Ireland was requisitionedby the Crown at >> the time of the Plantation. At least a third remained in thehands of local >> Irish landlords, normally provided they agreed to be loyal tothe Crown. An >> obvious example would bethe Maguires who had lands in Fermanagh. Chunks of >> land were declared forfeitfollowing the 1641 uprising and reallocated. >> Details in the Down survey: http://downsurvey.tcd.ie/down-survey-maps.php >> Robinson spends some time discussing theorigins of settler names in Tyrone, >> and to what extent Scottish undertakers hadScots tenants, and English >> undertakers had English tenants. The implicationbeing that they originated >> in their landlords respective estates. However therewas evidently a lot of >> mixing. For example on p122 he says: The evidence of Scots settling >> outsidetheir allocated baronies of Strabane and Mountjoy is supplemented by >> a statementof Lord Audley’s in 1614 when he claimed that his estate of >> Finagh and Rarone inOmagh barony had as many Scots as English in it. >> Although there is considerable degree ofcontinuity between 1630 and 1666 in >> the distributional pattern of Britishsettlement, and indeed in the >> persistence of English and Scottish localities,the actual surnames on most >> estates did change dramatically. This turnover ofpersonnel cannot be >> attributed simply to the ravages of the 1641 rebellion, forcomparable >> changes can be observed between 1622 and 1630. A high degree oftenant >> mobility is a striking characteristic of plantation settlement, despitethe >> continuity of settlement patterns.” He goes on to discuss colonial spread. >> “In1622 the percentage of Scots on any Tyrone estate was closely related >> towhether or not the estate was Scottish owned, and only marginally related >> tothe physical distance from Londonderry as the natural entry point for >> Scottishsettlers. However by 1630 the gap between the statistical >> significance of thesetwo factors had narrowed, and by 1666 it was the >> distance from Londonderrywhich was most significant. This supports the model >> of colonization outlinedabove, whereby the process of direct plantation, >> with subsequent internalmigration operated simultaneously with that of >> colonial spread. Furthermore thecontention that colonial spread became >> relatively more important than directplantation with time is also >> supported.” (This continues for pages but you willhopefully get the general >> drift. Manysettlers in Tyrone and particularly the Scots arrived via >> Londonderry and movedacross Tyrone. Some stayed put and some moved about. >> After 40 years colonialspread meant that a significant percentage were no >> longer in the place wherethey first settled). Loughterush is in the barony >> of Omagh East.For me, the absence of Morrisons in that part of Tyrone in the >> Muster Rolls (iec 1630) strongly suggests your ancestors must have there >> arrived afterthat. There’s only 1 Morison in Tyronein the Muster Rolls, a >> Robert Morsion in Strabane barony. Perhaps your familywere connected to him >> and moved south to Loughterush. So colonial spread? Your question is whether >> Audley brought theMorisons over? I doubt he brought them over himself >> because he appears to haveacquired those lands from his uncle, Lord >> Castlehaven who was the originalUndertaker. The family were from Petersfield >> in Hampshire. Morison is not a name particularly common inthat part of >> England so that would make me doubt they were Castlehaven tenantsin England. >> But I might be wrong. Elwyn >> On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 01:21, James McKane <jamck...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> A search of the CoTyroneIreland.com Tithe Applotment Index shows this entry >> >> | MORRISON | Edward | Loughterush | Sloy Manor, Kilskerry 1826 >> | >> >> >> >> Jim McKane >> Kitchener, Ontario >> >> On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 5:02 PM Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList >> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: >> >> I located a copy of the 1654-1656 Civil Survey that covers the townland of >> Loughterush in Kilskeery Parish … this obviously does not list the tenants >> names, only the owner … but there is interesting information there that for >> me begs some questions that perhaps some of you could help me with. I have >> attached the top page with the header that describes the area and names the >> owner, and then the page that lists Laghterish (older spelling or >> misspelling of Loughterush) among the townlands in his possession. >> Questions:1. Is there any reason to have confidence that Col. Audley Mervin >> would have been the one to have brought the Morrisons over to Loughterush? >> 2. Were all of the lands of Ulster apportioned out in the time frame around >> 1610, or did it take a longer period of time (ie, could Mervin have been >> granted his land after 1630?) He was also listed among those who came to the >> aid of Londonderry during the siege by James II in 1690, so he was not >> likely an original grantee in 1610.3.The total acreage for the townlands of >> Lisnahanna, Loughterush, and Derryvokenan (?) is listed as 65 acres … there >> is obviously a lot more than 65 acres there (even Irish acres) ; the >> Morrison farm alone was about 40-50 acres … could that be referring to only >> the amount of acreage under cultivation? >> Other items of interest: … I now know what a Balliboe is. >> … Based on the note in the left column of the first page, Audley was >> apparently among those protestant royalists who were penalized by Cromwell >> with the settlement act of 1652. >> >> Rick Smoll >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: elwyn soutter <elwynsout...@googlemail.com> >> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> >> Cc: rsmoll999 <rsmoll...@aim.com> >> Sent: Thu, May 21, 2020 9:27 pm >> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633 >> >> Rick, The surname, the general location and thefamily denomination all point >> to them being settlers who probably arrived inIreland in the 1600s. >> MacLysaght’s surnames of Ireland describesMorrison as “an English name >> numerous inUlster.” The location ie Tyrone, is a county heavily settled by >> Scots &English in that period, and the family denomination (Methodist in >> 1901) alsopoints to them being incomers. (They would almost certainly have >> been Church ofIreland – ie Anglican- in earlier times, prior to Methodism’s >> arrival inIreland). So in effect you have 3pointers to them being of >> settler origins. The Muster Rolls c 1630 show a number ofMorrisons in >> Ireland, and one in Tyrone, but none in the Barony of Omagh East(which >> includes Loughterush) so that points to a post 1630 arrival in >> theLoughterush area, if not in Ireland. It’s very rare to find any >> documentationfor the 1600s, unless you were an Undertaker or major land >> owner, or had landforfeit after the 1641 rebellion. Theearliest likely >> records might be in the Registry of Deeds which start around1709. If the >> family registered a lease or other significant document, thatsometimes gives >> you a date. Failing that, church records may help. KilskeeryChurch of >> Ireland records start in 1767 so you might find them there. For somepeople >> the tithe applotment records in the late 1820s/early 1830s are often >> theearliest records to be found. I searched the PRONI e-catalogue but see >> nomention there of Morrison in Loughterush other than in the tithes in >> 1826.There were no comprehensive records of when people first acquired land. >> Formost 17th century settlers, the first 150 years or so of their timein >> Ireland are lost in the mists of time. Elwyn >> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 03:06, rsmoll999 via CoTyroneList >> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: >> >> Peter ... thanks for responding ... the links you sent are not working for >> me. I'll do some more hunting for those sites.Sent from my Sprint Samsung >> Galaxy S9. >> -------- Original message --------From: Peter McKittrick via CoTyroneList >> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Date: 5/21/20 8:43 PM (GMT-06:00) To: >> "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Cc: >> Peter McKittrick <petermck...@gmail.com> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] >> Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633 A past Genealogical Society of >> Victoria (Australia) handout indicates that Morrison appears in Scottish >> names in Tyrone, 1610-1633 based on muster rolls and estate maps.Sources: >> Brian Orr, Plantation of Ireland and the Ulster Scots published on >> http://www.irishclans.com/ <http://www.irishclans.com/> >> Gwen Rawlings-Barry, The Ulster Plantation (1605-1697) published on >> http://www.canadasulsterscots.tripod.com/ >> <http://www.canadasulsterscots.tripod.com/> (website not found).Peter >> McKittrick> On 22 May 2020, at 10:23 am, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList >> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:> > Rick, My guess is that they >> could have been part of the plantation of Ulster in the 17thC. I >> suspect(based on my surname) that my ancestors may have been part of that >> event too but have not been able to find any records of who arrived from >> where and when. Any help (thanks Len S. for your earlier help) would be >> appreciated. Gordon> > On 22/05/2020 3:14 am, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList >> wrote:>> My Morrison ancestors occupied a farm in the Loughterush townland >> (Kilskeery Parish) from at least the mid 1700s until 1970 when the last >> Morrison on the farm passed away (he was a bachelor), and the farm was sold >> at public auction. The earliest ancestor I have found records for was Edward >> Morrison, and the earliest reference to Loughterush was with the birth of a >> daughter of his in 1781.>> My question is: Is there a way to find out when >> the Morrisons first came to occupy the farm in Loughterush?>> Thank you for >> any help on this.>> >> Rick Smoll>> >> _______________________________________________>> CoTyroneList Mailing >> List>> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com>> Change >> Your Preferences: >> http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com>> >> Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY> > -- > >> _________________________________> Nereda & Gordon Wilkinson, Hyde Park, >> South Australia.> Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon Skype id: neredon> >> Emails: gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au >> nereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au> > > >> _______________________________________________> CoTyroneList Mailing List> >> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Change Your >> Preferences: >> http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com> >> Mailing List Archive: >> https://goo.gl/mQCKrY_______________________________________________CoTyroneList >> Mailing ListMailing List Email Address: >> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.comChange Your Preferences: >> http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.comMailing >> List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY >> _______________________________________________ >> CoTyroneList Mailing List >> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >> Change Your Preferences: >> http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com >> Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CoTyroneList Mailing List >> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >> Change Your Preferences: >> http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com >> Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CoTyroneList Mailing List >> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >> Change Your Preferences: >> http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com >> Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY _______________________________________________ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
