At 01:37 AM 3/23/02 -0500, dmolnar wrote:
>(See, the information-only goods don't count. they're not REAL ENOUGH.

What we need is FedEx crossed with _Bladerunner_ or _The Postman_
somehow interstitial to the meatspace mafia (govt).  The difficulties
with
the meat:info interface has been well discussed here.

>Recently we saw this question echoed by Morlock Elloi -- are there
>compelling reasons to ask for privacy and anonymity, besides the fact
that
>a bunch of (unemployed) cypherpunks are True Believers?

High schoolers who get busted for private sites might be teaching, by
example, their
peers about the value of anonymity.

>hell, is the temporary autonomous zone still what "cypherpunks is
about"?

Even if restricted only to Brittney/Stealth plans, its a *part* of it.

But lets remember the *triumphs* of the last decade, which were not
brought up last time
this was discussed:

* I use VPN to connect to work, daily
* Every book I've bought for the last several years, and a good deal of
ammo, has been via SSL
* Regular use of PGP, between radically different platforms, with more
paranoid colleages
* Stego -but if I told you, I'd have to kill you
* I've not gone into a physical bank in years, but my ATM uses crypto

With the possible exception of PGP, you don't have to understand these
to use them.

* Every middle-rate university now has crypto courses and there are
crypto libraries for
every language/platform out there

Things look real good for the *next generation*, folks -the ones who
think the (100) million bytes/MIPS/pixels
machine belongs in the Smithsonian, along with its phone modem...  call
'em generation Napster
or the generation Broadband, whatever... kids have many more secrets
than adults, since kids have
parents and police Panopticonning them...

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