On 10/3/2017 6:21 μμ, Florian Kräutli wrote:
Apologies for having inadvertently split this discussion in two threads. I hope this answer shows up in the right place.Yes, the idea is to regard images, 3D-models, HTML files, .doc etc., as making up virtual mathematical spaces (not! E53 Place), in which we can describe sections by some geometric expression, as I would in natural space by geocoordinates. This is already underlying the METS <area> construct. In the 3D-COFORM Project, we have generalized this to add 3D models. We then describe an area, such as a rectangle highlight on an image, as a P106 part of the Digital Object, and identify it by a sort of new RDF data type, i.e., a literal filled with an XML expression, as xsdDateTime, GeoSPARQL etc. That allows for connecting a Triple Store with a media browser that understands the highlights.Thank you Dominic and Christian-Emil. This is really useful.Dominic, you pointed to another part of the problem which I haven't asked about here, but which appears in a different area of our model. The question of how do I specify the page where an expression appears in a PDF?Martin and George, I hope you don't mind if I share your recommendation on this question here:7) How to refer to page? The distinction between pages in the physical work and the digital work was first pointed to. 1) One page in the publication expression. Pages separate below phrase boundaries. Therefore they are units at the symbolic level and parthood should be expressed using P106 2) One in the digital image If you want to go pages on pdf, would best to use a media indexing Annotation from 3DCoform METS <area> construct gets an ID and has coordinates in media object2
Best, Martin
On 10 Mar 2017, at 16:29, crm-sig-requ...@ics.forth.gr <mailto:crm-sig-requ...@ics.forth.gr> wrote:Send Crm-sig mailing list submissions to crm-sig@ics.forth.gr <mailto:crm-sig@ics.forth.gr> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to crm-sig-requ...@ics.forth.gr You can reach the person managing the list at crm-sig-ow...@ics.forth.gr When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Crm-sig digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 (Dominic Oldman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 15:24:50 +0000 From: Dominic Oldman <do...@oldman.me.uk> To: Christian-Emil Smith Ore <c.e.s....@iln.uio.no>, "crm-sig@ics.forth.gr" <crm-sig@ics.forth.gr> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 Message-ID: <CAHVLp01pyaJqx52N97JX=syvJfGrscPooig9S6a=3h0wcfb...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Florian, Here is an off line discussion that we should have put on the list. Cheers, D orcid.org/0000-0002-5539-3126 On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore < c.e.s....@iln.uio.no> wrote:Do so, and send my regards. Please incorproate the following example: To create excerpts is common activity in lexicography and history. Anexcerpt is indeed a fragement of a text. The corresponding expression is a fragment expression. See for example a paperslip for the word 'shovelfork'(used to prepare la (small) field instead of ploughing. The text is a fragment of a longer text dealing with somebody childhood memories http://www.edd.uio.no/setelarkiv/setel1963769.jpg? The entire paper slip represents a self-contained expression where a expression fragment is incorporated (in the corresponding work) Best Christian-Emil ------------------------------ *From:* Dominic Oldman <do...@oldman.me.uk> *Sent:* 10 March 2017 13:32 *To:* Christian-Emil Smith Ore *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 Hi Christian, I note that this didnt go on the list - Can I post this to the list as I think it is important generally. D orcid.org/0000-0002-5539-3126 On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Dominic Oldman <do...@oldman.me.uk> wrote:Although I think then the scope note could be much clearer on E23 because it tends to suggest fragments isolated from the whole whereas in this casethe section still resides within a whole. Although the scope note doesstate "excerpts" I still think this could be stated far more clearly withless ambiguity - if it does mean that these excerpts can be identified sections of the information object within a whole text. Can we put this on the agenda for the next meeting? D orcid.org/0000-0002-5539-3126 On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore < c.e.s....@iln.uio.no> wrote:It is not necessarily so that the text printed on a page is aself-contained expression, it is in general a F23 Expression Fragment ?Best Christian-Emil F22 Self-Contained ExpressionThis class comprises the immaterial realisations of individual works at a particular time that are regarded as a complete whole. The quality of wholeness reflects the intention of its creator that this expression shouldconvey the concept of the work. Such a whole can in turn be part of a larger whole. Inherent to the notion of work is the completion of recognisableoutcomes of the work. These outcomes, i.e. the Self-Contained Expressions, are regarded as the symbolic equivalents of Individual Works, which formthe atoms of a complex work. A Self-Contained Expression may containexpressions or parts of expressions from other work, such as citations or items collected in anthologies. Even though they are incorporated in the Self-Contained Expression, they are not regarded as becoming members of theexpressed container work by their inclusion in the expression, but are rather regarded as foreign or referred to elements. F22 Self-Contained Expression can be distinguished from F23 ExpressionFragment in that an F23 Expression Fragment was not intended by its creator to make sense by itself. Normally creators would characterise an outcome of a work as finished. In other cases, one could recognise an outcome of a work as complete from the elaboration or logical coherence of its content, or if there is any historical knowledge about the creator deliberately or accidentally never finishing (completing) that particular expression. Inall those cases, one would regard an expression as self-contained. ------------------------------ *From:* Dominic Oldman <do...@oldman.me.uk> *Sent:* 09 March 2017 20:50 *To:* Christian-Emil Smith Ore *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 So in this case the self contained expression (information object)identified as page 1 can then be represented by a part of a PDF image which itself identifies parts (a physical page?) which are identified accordingly.I'm still not sure whether this is what Florian means though - so awaithis reply. D orcid.org/0000-0002-5539-3126 On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore < c.e.s....@iln.uio.no> wrote:HiThere are many ways to number or put identifiers to parts of written orprinted material:folio, sheet (versio/recto), page.If the physical original is known, perhaps a starting point would be tomodel the physical parts and their relationships.The pdfs in question seems to be facsimiles of these physical parts. (a single page, double pages etc). A possible way to model them is to see the pdfs as carriers of visual items reperesenting the physical objects of thespecific item (P5). The first example in the compenote of P138 represents (has representation): ? the digital file found at http://www.emunch.no/N/full/No -MM_N0001-01.jpg (E36) represents page 1 of Edward Munch's manuscript MM N 1, Munch-museet (E73) mode of representation Digitisation(E55) Best Christian-Emil ________________________________________ From: Crm-sig <crm-sig-boun...@ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Dominic Oldman <dold...@britishmuseum.org> Sent: 09 March 2017 17:59 To: Florian Kr?utli; crm-sig@ics.forth.gr Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 Hi Florian, Just trying to understand. You have an expression that is organised with page numbers. This is reproduced in the PDF. The expression page numbers are the same (theinformation object) but page 1 is spread over two carrier pages. i.e. page 1 is still page 1 as an information object but on the application adobe spreads it over two application carrier pages. Is that right? or is itsomething else.If the expression is the same (the same information object) then isn'tpage 1, page 1 Can you clarify. D ________________________________________ From: Crm-sig [crm-sig-boun...@ics.forth.gr] on behalf of Florian Kr?utli [fkraeu...@mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de] Sent: 09 March 2017 10:38 To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 Dear Martin, many thanks for your input!Our question at the moment is simply, does a page in the PDF representone or two pages of the book?Later on, we might have more specific questions that will require us todefine the relationships between these two page identifiers (in thephysical book and in the PDF) more explicitly. We would then also need to manually assess each PDF as, for instance, we can not assume that page n in a book corresponds to page n/2 in a double-spread PDF. A PDF might contain some additional pages with information about the digitisation process.For now we however only need a binary answer: double-spread yes or no.All the best, FlorianOn 8 Mar 2017, at 11:00, crm-sig-requ...@ics.forth.gr wrote: Send Crm-sig mailing list submissions to crm-sig@ics.forth.gr To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to crm-sig-requ...@ics.forth.gr You can reach the person managing the list at crm-sig-ow...@ics.forth.gr When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Crm-sig digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Pages reproduced as spreads (martin) ----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 18:24:17 +0200 From: martin <mar...@ics.forth.gr> To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Pages reproduced as spreads Message-ID: <e4b3d793-40d5-f5d5-1f39-ff2404bab...@ics.forth.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Dear Florian, There is no model without a question. Pages of books constitute a partitioning of an information object. Each page number can be seen as an identifier. Paragraphs belong to an alternative partitioning system. The reproduction has its own particioning, the scanned double pages.Each scanned image represents, actually also incorporates, the text oftwo pages of the reproduced. Between alternative partitionings, one can define includes/overlaps relations.If this is elegant, depends on what queries or functions you'd like tosupport. Best, martin On 7/3/2017 1:36 ??, Florian Kr?utli wrote:Dear all,I have a collection of Books (F5) that have been reproduced (F33) asPDFs (E84).In some cases, books have been digitised as spreads i.e. one page inthe PDF represents two pages in the book.Is there an elegant way to model this? Best, Florian _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig-- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | | Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr | | Center for Cultural Informatics | Information Systems Laboratory | Institute of Computer Science | Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | | N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | | Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig ------------------------------ End of Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 ***************************************_______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20170310/1ff1d6bd/attachment.html>------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig ------------------------------ End of Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 10 ****************************************_______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
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Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 |
Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
| Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr |
|
Center for Cultural Informatics |
Information Systems Laboratory |
Institute of Computer Science |
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
|
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
|
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
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