Dear All,
Please let me add some clarifications.
All valid aspects that you mention😁
.. but with the Russian example I wanted to describe an administrative
unit, not to explain the term "capital of Russia", nor who maintains it.
I follow Oeyvind's arguments about the complexity of involved actors.
So, let's not make it too complicated. If a better term than "capital"
needs to be or can be found, the better.
The point with the Helsinki example is that settlement and
administrative unit are completely different in substance.
When the Russian capital moved, the settling activity did not abandon
Moscow and later St. Petersburg. The cities did not change names. Only
the administrators/governmental bodies will have moved, and associated
businesses and nobles. When the Helsinki settlers moved, they may not
have formed an administrative unit, or may be the administrative unit
was larger, or administrative units stayed in place, or moved with the
settlers, but the settlement activity abandoned the old place and
populated the new area, as I understand, carrying with it its local
name. May be someone can add the details?
Therefore, I try to show that settling and administrative units should
be distinguished, regardless whether in former times administrative
units may have imposed limits on settling activities.
Kiruna is nice and exactly up to the point, but ongoing, if I understand
correctly?
Wrt to Japan, I tried to find the official title of the current country
as political unit. Can anybody help, our Japanese colleagues?
"Country" may be better?
Best,
Martin
On 10/8/2021 7:27 PM, Øyvind Eide wrote:
Hi, here are also some comments from me.
Am 07.10.2021 um 13:39 schrieb George Bruseker via Crm-sig
<crm-sig@ics.forth.gr <mailto:crm-sig@ics.forth.gr>>:
Hi all,
I wonder about the phrasing of the examples (rather than the substance).
*The Capital of Russia (E4) [the capital of Russia is an
administrative unit that moved in historical times from Moscow to
St Petersburg and again back to Moscow. This examplifies and
administrative unit changing place over time without temporal
discontinuity]
The existence of the Capital of Russia
(The phrase 'capital of Russia' sounds more like the actor or the
geographic place)
I would say the actor would be the state of Russia, and the place (in
CRM sense) is something quite different. It is of course the case that
”geographic place” often refer more or less to what CRM calls a
Period, not what we call a Place.
As for the example itself, I find it useful. There is a clear
continuity, and ”the Capital of Russia” has enough complexity to make
it comprehensible as a Period rather than an Actor. It is the
government but also a number of other institutions connected to it
(political organisations’ head quarters, all sorts of lobbyists,
embassies, spies, cultural institutions, etc. etc. It has a spatial
extent which for almost all capitals change over time, but also enough
continuity.
* The settling activity of the community of Hersinki (or
Helsingfors) (E7) [the old settlement of Helsinki (or
Helsingfors) was located in the area of the modern airport. The
community moved later to settle on the coast. This exemplies a
continued activity changing place over time without temporal
discontinuity]
Also good, but does it add anything to the Russian example? Is the
point to show that the movements can be gradual? Or short distance?
One alternative would be Kiruna:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna#Moving_the_town
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna#Moving_the_town>
* Bronze Period (E4) [Bronze Period spread out into disjoint
areas including islands such as the British Islands without
temporal discontinuity]
Classical example which confirms that what we know as periods are,
indeed, also CRM Periods. Necessary.
* The nation of Japan (E4) [In 2021, the Japanese nation
comprises in 6852 islands extending along the Pacific coast of Asia]
The existence of the nation of Japan
Again, the straight phrase nation of Japan sounds more like E39 Actor
or E53 Place.
Country instead of nation?
All the best,
Øyvind
Best,
George
_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr <mailto:Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr>
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
