Good spotting! I agree with Thanasis that there is any issue, but I think that the range is wrong for P112, which I would argue should also be E18.
For example, I find a tree and break off a branch. The tree is not a Human-Made Thing, it's an E20 Biological Object. Or I break a piece of obsidian (I would argue an E19) into two. Or if the obsidian is part of a lava flow, then it would be a physical feature ... and thus we end up at E18 as the common ancestor. I think that E18 remains correct for P113, given the described use of removal of a part from an E78 Curated Holding. If I remove a meteorite fragment from the collection of a natural history museum, the meteorite is (again, I would argue) an E19. Now ... can it ever be an E18 Physical Thing but not an E19 Physical Object? It can't be a Feature, as they cannot be removed, ruling out E26 and below. However E78 is an E24 Physical Human-Made Thing, but not an E19 Physical Object. If we use E78 to model sub-collections, and sub-collections can be removed from their parent, then yes, here is a case where we need E18. Rob On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 11:22 AM Athanasios Velios via Crm-sig < crm-sig@ics.forth.gr> wrote: > Hm, yes, this is confusing. We might need a new issue to update the > scope note. I think the correct class is E24 as it seems that E80 Part > Removal does not cover cases such as cutting a stalactite off in a cave. > > Thanasis > > On 29/11/2021 15:41, Erin Canning via Crm-sig wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I am hoping you might be able to help me with a small confusion - > > > > The scope note for E80_Part_Removal > > <https://cidoc-crm.org/Entity/e80-part-removal/version-7.1.1> states > > that "This class comprises the activities that result in an instance of > > E18 Physical Thing being decreased by the removal of a part." This reads > > to me as if the relationship would then go: E80 > P112_diminished > E18, > > as P112 creates the connection to the thing being diminished (having > > something removed from it), as opposed to P113_removed, which is for the > > connection to the thing that was removed. > > However, the range of P112 is E24, not E18, and the scope note for > > P112_diminished > > <https://cidoc-crm.org/Property/p112-diminished/version-7.1.1> reads > > "This property identifies the instance E24 Physical Human-Made Thing > > that was diminished by an instance of E80 Part Removal." > > Meanwhile, the range of P113_removed > > <https://cidoc-crm.org/Property/p113-removed/version-7.1.1> is E18, as > > is the range of P31_has_modified <https://cidoc-crm.org/node/8121>, the > > superproperty of P112. > > > > It seems to me therefore that either I am reading the scope note > > incorrectly (very possible!) or that there is an inconsistency between > > the two, perhaps in the range of P112? > > > > I looked in the Issues history for anything about this, and wonder if > > the discussion around the change of P31 (Issue 191 > > <https://cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-191-range-of-p31>) might have relevance > > to either the range or language around it, as in that case the range of > > P31 was relaxed from E24 to E18. Although, that being said, this > > perceived E18/E24 inconsistency as described above exists as far back as > > v4.0 <https://cidoc-crm.org/html/cidoc_crm_v4.0.html#E80>, the earliest > > version available on the website, so perhaps it is my reading of the > > scope note that is backwards... > > > > To summarize, my question is - Which is the correct range of P112: E18 > > as stated in the E80 scope note or E24 as stated in the P112 scope note > > and range; or am I reading this set of notes/relationships incorrectly? > > > > Thanks for your guidance on this, > > Erin Canning > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Crm-sig mailing list > > Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr > > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig > -- Rob Sanderson Director for Cultural Heritage Metadata Yale University
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