Ok I"ll be in tomorrow On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 9:19 AM Denis Roy <denis....@eclipse-foundation.org> wrote:
> Ed, > > I'm very sorry that you choose to see this as a vandalism. Change is > always difficult to manage; yet if we refusing to accept it, we risk being > left behind while our surroundings evolve around us. We've been holding > onto good-old status quo for as long as we could. We must continue to > evolve. Collectively. > > I think your energies would be better invested in moving your projects > forward. We can help, the burden is not all on you, and we've stretched the > timelines as much as possible. You might be pleasantly surprised with the > end result. > > Unfortunately, you've been plagued with email issues for over a decade. > Each time the EF IT team has plowed through logs and have given you trace > IDs to try to track the issue at your provider. GitLab is talking to you. I > don't feel we can do any more here. > > > > Denis > > > > On 2022-04-19 05:54, Ed Willink wrote: > > Hi > > Sorry. This is vandalism. No other word for it. "action involving > deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property." I > didn't call anyone in particular a vandal since I do not know who / what is > the underlying motivating force for this madness. > > Yes I'm frustrated and seriously considering quitting Eclipse since the EF > is pulling the rug out from facilities that I considered sacrosanct. > > No I can't use gitlab since gitlab doesn't talk to me. > > Regards > > Ed > On 19/04/2022 09:25, Ed Merks wrote: > > Ed, > > I want to suggest *yet again *to please have this discussion on this > issue rather than on this mailing list. > > https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678 > > This way all the interested parties can partake in the discussion and it > will be recorded in one place rather than threaded through this mailing > list. Also, you will then see how issues work (which is rather cool in my > opinion) and you will be able to comment in a more informed way about it. > > I'd also strongly suggest omitting the emotional baggage from the > discussion because when you describe something as 'vandalism' it implies > that there are vandals about. I'm very sure that our fine, overworked, > Eclipse-Foundation IT staff will not appreciate that implication, nor > suggestions that there is craziness and madness involved. > > Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are frustrated... > > Regards, > Ed > > On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink wrote: > > Hi > > A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to be > avoided. > > So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues? > > Unfortunately I cannot participate on gitlab issues since gitlab seems > unable to send notifications to me. I am excluded which may please many. I > do not have the bandwidth to keep a Firefox tab open on every gitlab issue > I care about and to poll them to see what has happened. > > Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept that > this may be a necessary evil. > > It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a totally > unjustified vandalism. > > The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option. > > Regards > > Ed Willink > On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote: > > Ed, > > The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org was > announced to all committers: > > https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html > > The announcement included a plan: > > > https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan > > It also included a place for providing feedback: > > https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678 > > The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's a > done deal and will not be undone. > > Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't really move them > between organizations, when an organization has many repos, it's not so > clear where to open and issue, and how to search for issues across repos > and organizations isn't clear. > > Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations. > > https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/ > https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/ > https://github.com/eclipse-pde/ > https://github.com/eclipse-platform/ > > There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much > richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples. > > In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest concrete > proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than the mailing list: > > https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678 > > > Regards, > Ed > > On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote: > > Hi > > Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need to > chase endless ripples? > > While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org might > be necessary and a manageable pain mitigated by redirects, terminating > Bugzilla is madness. > > Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to the platform and > JDT for over 20 years and as such is THE record of many design decisions. > The integrity of this record should not lightly be discarded, particularly > given that Bugzilla is not EOL. Ok it is not seeing much progress towards > version 6, but to me that just demonstrates that it is adequate. Proposed > replacements are far from adequate. > > Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have long encouraged > users to report their bug making a best guess at the correct product, sure > in the knowledge that it can be re-componented. > > For instance https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_activity.cgi?id=578944 > was recently plausibly raised as an EMF bug, but then equally plausibly > triaged as an OCL bug. Upon investigation this was bounced back again to > EMF with the option to bounce further to platform. Bugzilla supports this > very cleanly. > > For instance again, last week I was forced to raise > https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=579718 against PDE since > JDT has gone. hoping that some PDE recipient would know what the new > technology for re-componenting was. Instead a comment suggests that this is > likely a side effect of the 16 year old > https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=99622 that is still being > worked on. > > Examination of Bug 99622 shows that although JDT bugs have been moved to > archive the active bugs have not yet been migrated and that no moved > notifications have been sent. > > It seems essential that ALL bugzillas from ALL 'platform' projects should > be kept in the SAME search space; Bugzilla provides this. Replacements do > not. This would seem to apply until some major disruption such as "e5" may > justify the new team starting a new bug train for the new activity. Until > then please keep e3 and e4 together. > > For Modeling projects this is even more of an imperative. Sadly Eclipse > and World Modeling is dying so the amount of new work in the next 20 years > is likely to be much less than that in the last twenty. It is therefore > crazy to split the dying embers off from their predecessors. If/when some > magic new team of well funded enthusiasts comes along to pioneer EMF 3, > then let them too choose the appropriate bug platform for the new > initiative. For now please do not spend so much effort vandalizing out past > achievements and burning our precious development resources. > > Is there any long term Eclipse committer who actually wants this Bugzilla > vandalism? > > Regards > > Ed Willink > On 18/04/2022 00:51, Denis Roy wrote: > > We'll address the issue via the HelpDesk issue below. > > Agree though, we need some redirects or links at the very least. > > Denis > > > On 2022-04-17 12:21, Stephan Herrmann wrote: > > On 17.04.22 12:46, Ed Merks wrote: > > The message could be improved by redirecting here: > > https://github.com/eclipse-jdt#reporting-issues > > It sounds like the PMI needs attention too... > > > see https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/1186 > > Anybody with a bookmark on bugs.eclipse.org or even > https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi will simply learn that JDT is > no longer accepting bug reports. End of story. I thought open source > development is all about communication. Never too old to learn better. I'm > glad I no longer feel responsible for any of this, otherwise I'd have > trouble avoiding any bad words ... > > Stephan > > > > On 17.04.2022 12:43, Ed Willink wrote: > > Hi > > The PMI form for JDT at > > https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=JDT > > is no longer able to report a bug. It reports "Sorry, entering a bug into > the product JDT has been disabled.,,Please press Back and try again." > > Does this mean that JDT is now perfect and will never have any bugs ever > again? > > Regards > > Ed Willink > > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > -- > > *Denis Roy* > > *Director, IT Services | **Eclipse Foundation* > > *Eclipse Foundation* <http://www.eclipse.org/>*: The Community for Open > Innovation and Collaboration* > > Twitter: @droy_eclipse > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing listcross-project-issues-...@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > > ------------------------------ > [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> > > <#m_-8608363162116968543_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing listcross-project-issues-...@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing listcross-project-issues-...@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing listcross-project-issues-...@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing listcross-project-issues-...@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing listcross-project-issues-...@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > -- > > *Denis Roy* > > *Director, IT Services | **Eclipse Foundation* > > *Eclipse Foundation* <http://www.eclipse.org/>*: The Community for Open > Innovation and Collaboration* > > Twitter: @droy_eclipse > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > To unsubscribe from this list, visit > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev >
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