Hi Adam and all, Great point. I asked about the documentation a while back and any pointers how to start the journey with Crowbar if I remember. I received a reply and checked the site. What happened? The Crowbar github and wiki really scared me. Totally user unfriendly in my opinion. They look like my pages when I was learning basics of HTML over 13 years ago. They might be easy for someone who uses them on a daily basis, but for a someone new, not at all. For those reasons, I did not come back to Crowbar really. I saw that Juju site and after just watching the video on a main page I wanted to play with it and start installation. That says everything. Crowbar project definitely needs a proper eye-catching website and real documentation in different formats. Without them you can forget about getting this project anywhere these days. As you said, it will stay for "a small bunch of hackers", I think. People have no time to dig such sites. They need fast, compact and easy information. I read years ago, that if someone does not find interesting thing or what they are looking for on a website within 7 seconds, will leave the site and won't come back.
Kindest regards, Grzegorz P.S. Sorry, but the Crowbar mascot (the purple rabbit) is terrible in my opinion. On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Adam Spiers <[email protected]> wrote: > Judd Maltin ([email protected]) wrote: > > Thanks for putting an eye to this, guys. > > > > The top of the page, with my h1 and h2, are my new additions. The bolds > > are Robs originals towards the bottom. > > Ah, I see. > > > Deeper curation is definitely required. This was a first pass at > enriching > > and updating. I wish the github wiki would allow html embedding. > > It does allow embedding of some HTML - <table> at least ... > > > Youtube has nice rich tagging, etc. Plus, there no TOC features, except > the > > sidebar plugin. > > The lack of ToC is tracked here: > > https://github.com/gollum/gollum/issues/380 > > and it looks like someone might implement it soon due to a sudden > burst of energy: > > https://github.com/gollum/gollum/issues/648 > > However there are other solutions, e.g. this looks pretty nice: > > https://github.com/hybridgroup/GitHub-Wikifier > > > I think it would take a few hours to get it just right. > > Maybe, but it would only take 20 mins to make some vast improvements. > "If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly." ;-) > > > Time I'm not assigned. > > I understand that right now we're all feeling the heat at the moment > due to the aggressive release schedule - and please take the following > remarks as general observations on the project rather than any kind of > comment on your own great work! - but I believe it's a false economy > to deprioritise documentation tasks even when under pressure to > accomplish other goals. > > As well as the immediate benefits which good documentation brings to > existing contributors (where the break-even point always happens > earlier than I expect), there is a potentially huge but currently > untapped community out there who could help us move a *lot* faster. > But one of the big reasons that Crowbar has not seen widespread > community adoption yet is that we still don't have friendly > documentation (although we got a *lot* closer in the last few months). > Look at: > > http://crowbar.github.com/ > > and now compare it with: > > https://juju.ubuntu.com/ > > The difference is *so* enormous that if someone is looking for a > solution in this space, currently they are almost guaranteed to pick > Juju regardless of any technical considerations, simply because the > Juju website portrays Juju as an incredibly active, healthy, credible, > friendly project with significant momentum, with backing from a strong > community. In contrast, our website is more like what you'd expect to > see from a project run by a small bunch of hackers in their spare > time, and I wouldn't expect most newcomers to delve deeply enough to > realise that's far from the reality. > > In November I submitted a Trello card to address the public website: > > https://trello.com/c/dBW9dlVu > > but despite it being on the current sprint board ever since, AFAICS > there's been zero progress so far. Didn't we have someone assigned to > work on this? > > So in summary, I believe we are vastly under-estimating the importance > of having a decent documentation, or at least under-prioritising it. > Sorry for the rant, but I think we really need to address this now if > we want "market" Crowbar and attract new contributors at imminent > events such as the Havana summit. > > If you made it this far, thanks for listening, and sorry for raising > an uncomfortable issue ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > Crowbar mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.us.dell.com/mailman/listinfo/crowbar > For more information: http://crowbar.github.com/ >
_______________________________________________ Crowbar mailing list [email protected] https://lists.us.dell.com/mailman/listinfo/crowbar For more information: http://crowbar.github.com/
