Cryptography-Digest Digest #195, Volume #9 Sat, 6 Mar 99 14:13:03 EST
Contents:
Entropy and Crypto-Grade Randomness (R. Knauer)
Random Generator (Gerben Dirksen)
Re: Clipper doubleplusungood...Your Honor, I plead the 4th (Doggmatic)
Re: Clipper doubleplusungood...Your Honor, I plead the 4th (Doggmatic)
British Crypto Fascists (R. Knauer)
Re: Random Generator ("Steve Sampson")
Re: Quantum Computation and Cryptography (R. Knauer)
Re: Random Generator (R. Knauer)
Re: Non linear dynamic systems random number generator (mdc)
Re: British Crypto Fascists ("Steve Sampson")
Re: Random Generator ("Steve Sampson")
Does anybody sell a TRNG? (Jim Trek)
Re: Doing It Right: The Next Chip Controversy ("John Enright")
Re: Random Generator (R. Knauer)
Re: British Crypto Fascists (R. Knauer)
Re: Quantum Computation and Cryptography (Anthony Stephen Szopa)
Re: Random Generator ("Steve Sampson")
Re: Websites (David A Molnar)
A Practical Reduced-Redundancy Bazeries Cylinder (REPOST) (John Savard)
Re: British Crypto Fascists ("Steve Sampson")
Re: New Concepts on Pseudorandomness (Michael Sierchio)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R. Knauer)
Subject: Entropy and Crypto-Grade Randomness
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:07:39 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Here are a few questions about Shannon entropy and crypto-grade
randomness:
What is the entropy of Champernonwe's number (base 10)? Does the
entropy of that number make it a good choice for a TRNG?
What is the entropy of pi? Does the entropy of that number make it a
good choice for a TRNG?
Does entropy measure correlation? If not, why is it of any real value
to crypto?
What does entropy have to do with true randomness? Is maximal entropy
both a necessary and sufficient condition for true randomness?
Curious minds want to know.
Bob Knauer
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual
rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
-- Ayn Rand
------------------------------
From: Gerben Dirksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Random Generator
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:31:00 +0100
Does anyone here know a good way of generating (pseudo) random numbers?
C++ has a random generator but I'd like something better than that one.
Thanks for any help,
Gerben Dirksen
------------------------------
From: Doggmatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Clipper doubleplusungood...Your Honor, I plead the 4th
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:05:10 GMT
In article <7bps83$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Doggmatic wrote in message <7bpbe7$72k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >, how hard would
> >it be to slip an Infinity transmitter into the set-up. Infinity
> transmitters
> >allow the affected phone to be called, but if the caller transmitted a
> >certain frequency (the note 'C' on a harmonica was common), then the
> affected
> >phone would not ring, but would would act like it were off-hook, so that
> the
> >caller could hear whatever sounds the affected phone picks up.
>
> Most current phones in the US at least use a physical switch in the body.
> This cannot be bypassed remotely though I understand that the European phone
> standard has provision (so far largely unimplemented) for that capability.
>
> Jay
Hmmm... interesting which opint you'd decide to pick up on. But anyways, the
obvious answer is that the transmitter is attached to/replaces the switch.
___/Mike ...two legs good, four legs bad? ... Why conform?
__/. | For my next trick, WATCH as this humble mouse breaks
\-__ \___ Windows at the mere press of a button.
\ Hey! Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: Doggmatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Clipper doubleplusungood...Your Honor, I plead the 4th
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:05:48 GMT
In article <7bps83$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Doggmatic wrote in message <7bpbe7$72k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >, how hard would
> >it be to slip an Infinity transmitter into the set-up. Infinity
> transmitters
> >allow the affected phone to be called, but if the caller transmitted a
> >certain frequency (the note 'C' on a harmonica was common), then the
> affected
> >phone would not ring, but would would act like it were off-hook, so that
> the
> >caller could hear whatever sounds the affected phone picks up.
>
> Most current phones in the US at least use a physical switch in the body.
> This cannot be bypassed remotely though I understand that the European phone
> standard has provision (so far largely unimplemented) for that capability.
>
> Jay
Hmmm... interesting which point you'd decide to pick up on. But anyways, the
obvious answer is that the transmitter is attached to/replaces the switch.
___/Mike ...two legs good, four legs bad? ... Why conform?
__/. | For my next trick, WATCH as this humble mouse breaks
\-__ \___ Windows at the mere press of a button.
\ Hey! Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R. Knauer)
Subject: British Crypto Fascists
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:53:15 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/
© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1999.
ISSUE 1380 Saturday 6 March 1999
Police want keys to decode private e-mail
By Robert Uhlig, Technology Correspondent
THE Government was accused yesterday of rushing
through legislation that could allow it unprecedented
powers to access and decrypt any person's private e-mail,
inspect digital communications, and investigate data
stored on their computers.
Stephen Byers, the Trade Secretary, and Jack Straw, the
Home Secretary, proposed legislation that will make it an
offence not to decipher confidential material on demand
during a police inquiry.
Industry has three weeks to respond to their proposals,
published as part of a consultation document on electronic
commerce, which asks for help from industry in setting up
a secure legal framework for trading on the Internet and
via electronic links. Mr Byers said a Bill on electronic
commerce, encompassing new encryption and
data-policing proposals, will be published after Easter.
In the hope of making Britain the world centre for
electronic commerce, the Department of Trade and
Industry wants to introduce legislation that will end the
days of people using pen and paper to make contracts.
"Developing trust on-line, building public confidence in
electronic signatures and clarifying their legal status are
essential if we are to promote electronic commerce," Mr
Byers said. "Encryption is vital to this way of supporting
electronic signatures as well as protecting the
confidentiality of documents."
However, the Home Office is concerned that encryption
poses a serious threat to the police's ability to intercept
and read stored and communicated communications sent
between criminals and terrorists.
"As, increasingly, such data becomes encrypted, agencies
need access to the keys to unlock any material they
lawfully obtain," Mr Byers said. "We therefore intend to
give those agencies legal powers to obtain encryption
keys, under properly authorised procedures and on a case
by case basis, wherever they are held."
The Government has faced an uphill battle with proposals
for laws to govern digital signatures and the use of
encryption software to keep digital data confidential.
Other countries, notably America and France, have backed
down on proposals that would allow them access to their
citizens' private communications. Soon after the election,
the Government rescinded a manifesto pledge not to
require companies and individuals to use key-escrow, a
system requiring decryption keys to be deposited with a
third party.
The consultation paper proposes a voluntary licensing
scheme for businesses which provide electronic signature
services, but industry and academia are concerned that any
attempt to force individuals and companies to deposit
their encryption keys with the authorities will undermine
public confidence in electronic commerce.
Yesterday Michael Wills, a trade minister responsible for
key-escrow policy, said the idea was on hold, but "not
dead and buried". He added that it was up to industry,
which has lobbied hard against key-escrow, to come up
with alternatives.
John Wadham, the director of the human rights group
Liberty, said: "I'm glad the Prime Minister realises that
compulsory key-escrow is not an acceptable solution. It's
like suggesting that the police should be able to steam
open your mail after you've put it in the post box."
The law at present allows the police or other authorities
to intercept telephone calls or other digital transmissions.
But any digital data can be encrypted using computer
software, making it almost impossible to read without the
correct key, which will be known only to the sender or
recipient of the message.
The Government wants to secure the right to demand
someone's key, if it intercepts an encrypted message that it
thinks is illegal or is being used for illegal purposes.
Responding to the paper, the Law Society warned the
Government not to regulate electronic transactions
differently from the rest of business.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual
rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
-- Ayn Rand
------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Random Generator
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:03:04 -0600
Your University probably has several good books on this.
Gerben Dirksen wrote
>Does anyone here know a good way of generating (pseudo) random numbers?
>C++ has a random generator but I'd like something better than that one.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R. Knauer)
Subject: Re: Quantum Computation and Cryptography
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:06:08 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 06 Mar 1999 07:49:36 -1000, Henry Lewsal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> >Until reversible NAND gates are invented and demonstrated, I doubt
>> >the general purpose capabilities of quantum computers. I hope someone
>> >will show us who has built them, and not just a rumor, I want facts.
>> Try "Explorations In Quantum Computing" by Colin Williams and Scott
>> Clearwater.
>Thank you for the rumor about something that might be related to
>the issue.
The issue I was keying on was reversible computation.
>If you have a copy of that book, would you please paraphrase
>what material was used to make the reversible quantum NAND gate?
>Please give a short description of its speed, size, cost, temperature,
>apparatus, and if it is just a theory.
Please send me 1 million dollars in small unmarked bills, and I will
be happy to comply with your request.
>I have heard plenty of
>statements that such NAND gates are possible, that equations have
>been written, but these are just rumors. If this NAND gate was
>fabricated into a material object, give some facts about it, do not
>just post a book title, which may not give the desired details
>and facts. Time machines, zero point energy, perpetual motion schemes,
>and anti-gravity engines have book titles, too. But I do not take on
>faith that they are practical, either.
What makes you think that a NAND gate is necessary for quantum
computation?
Bob Knauer
============================================================================
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual
rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
-- Ayn Rand
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R. Knauer)
Subject: Re: Random Generator
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:13:35 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:03:04 -0600, "Steve Sampson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Does anyone here know a good way of generating (pseudo) random numbers?
>>C++ has a random generator but I'd like something better than that one.
>Your University probably has several good books on this.
Yeah, just look in the section under Snake Oil.
Bob Knauer
============================================================================
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual
rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
-- Ayn Rand
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mdc)
Subject: Re: Non linear dynamic systems random number generator
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 16:16:07 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Stoned Nick Vlassopoulos
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well, this is an idea i came up with recently ....
>What if one uses a non-linear dynamic system as a random number
>generator...
[snip]
It could be highly sensitive to initial conditions, but it's still
deterministic. It might make a good pseudo-random NG,
but it can't be truly random.
As with any PRNG, you'd have to make a case by case
evaluation of how good is good enough?
Michael
http://www.mc2studios.com/
------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: British Crypto Fascists
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:23:01 -0600
R. Knauer wrote
>Police want keys to decode private e-mail
>By Robert Uhlig, Technology Correspondent
[snip]
>
>"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
individual
>rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
>-- Ayn Rand
Individual rights is anti-Marxist.
Marxism is when the state's view of itself is "the people." Anyone who
disagrees with that, by definition, is not "people." Either that, or they
just aren't good Marxists...
Communist China has a pretty good plan, they just round them
(non-Marxists) up and have them make clothes for Americans. I think
Britain should also round their people up in concentration camps, and
also make clothes for Americans. You either make clothes for
Americans (good Marxist), or you die.
------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Random Generator
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:26:17 -0600
Does that mean you feel the University library books on science
are not good sources of study?
R. Knauer wrote
>>>Does anyone here know a good way of generating (pseudo) random numbers?
>>>C++ has a random generator but I'd like something better than that one.
>
>>Your University probably has several good books on this.
>
>Yeah, just look in the section under Snake Oil.
------------------------------
From: Jim Trek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Does anybody sell a TRNG?
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:26:15 -0500
Does anybody know of a company that sells a true random
number generator (of any speed) for PC?
Jim Trek
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.frontiernet.net/~progress/
Future Beacon Technology
128 Main Street
Brockport, NY 14420
Voice (716) 637-0256
Fax (716) 637-6134
------------------------------
From: "John Enright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Doing It Right: The Next Chip Controversy
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:39:35 -0700
You've overlooked one very important detail. Let me give you this scenario:
I'm an upright computer user who pays for all of my software (like most
people). Now I decide that I need to upgrade my machine. Under your
scheme, I can't simply reinstall all of my software on the new computer.
And don't tell me about a long, painful reinstall process in order to move
the software. I don't think the public is going to stand for this. Tying
software to a particular machine is a *VERY BAD* idea, IMO.
Still, the flipside is how to make sure that the software companies aren't
pirated out of business? I think that if it's difficult enough for most
people, then business will remain good, and prices won't be too bloated to
compensate for piracy.
Just as I'm sure you're not a big fan of the government controlling what you
can & can't encrypt, the public will only swallow so much in the control of
the software they purchase. Too much control is always rejected by the
public.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R. Knauer)
Subject: Re: Random Generator
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 18:09:52 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:26:17 -0600, "Steve Sampson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>Does anyone here know a good way of generating (pseudo) random numbers?
>>>>C++ has a random generator but I'd like something better than that one.
>>>Your University probably has several good books on this.
>>Yeah, just look in the section under Snake Oil.
>Does that mean you feel the University library books on science
>are not good sources of study?
Nope. I wasn't commenting on the university as the source of the
books.
Bob Knauer
============================================================================
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual
rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
-- Ayn Rand
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R. Knauer)
Subject: Re: British Crypto Fascists
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 18:12:06 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:23:01 -0600, "Steve Sampson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Britain should also round their people up in concentration camps, and
>also make clothes for Americans. You either make clothes for
>Americans (good Marxist), or you die.
I thought that was what capitalism is all about.
Bob Knauer
============================================================================
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual
rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
-- Ayn Rand
------------------------------
From: Anthony Stephen Szopa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Quantum Computation and Cryptography
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:03:20 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henry Lewsal wrote:
> R. Knauer wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 05 Mar 1999 20:46:02 -1000, Henry Lewsal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Until reversible NAND gates are invented and demonstrated, I doubt
> > >the general purpose capabilities of quantum computers. I hope someone
> > >will show us who has built them, and not just a rumor, I want facts.
> >
> > Try "Explorations In Quantum Computing" by Colin Williams and Scott
> > Clearwater.
> >
> > Bob Knauer
>
> Thank you for the rumor about something that might be related to
> the issue. If you have a copy of that book, would you please paraphrase
> what material was used to make the reversible quantum NAND gate?
> Please give a short description of its speed, size, cost, temperature,
> apparatus, and if it is just a theory. I have heard plenty of
> statements that such NAND gates are possible, that equations have
> been written, but these are just rumors. If this NAND gate was
> fabricated into a material object, give some facts about it, do not
> just post a book title, which may not give the desired details
> and facts. Time machines, zero point energy, perpetual motion schemes,
> and anti-gravity engines have book titles, too. But I do not take on
> faith that they are practical, either.
3 years ago the solid state research center in the US was definitely
fabricating quantum well structures that were very good but not good enough
as far as uniformity and low defect rates were concerned. Who knows what
their current state of development is?
Contact University of California Santa Barbara. They have the National
Research Center that is researching and coordinating this research from all
over the country and I also believe they are working with other world wide
research facilities.
Contact the College of Engineering and perhaps the Solid State Department.
They can give you contact information for this on campus National Center.
Let us know?
------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Random Generator
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:43:27 -0600
The person asked about random numbers, I pointed out that
the best stuff is in the University library, and you said something
about snake oil. When asked whether you meant University books
were poor sources of study, you remarked that you weren't
commenting on the University as the source of books.
I'm afraid I have made a mistake, and am talking with someone
who's native language isn't English, or I don't understand the
joke.
Normally I don't even talk to people who's favorite quote is
longer than their message, but I thought I should point out to
you, that English is a very hard language, and you should refrain
from using it.
Steve
R. Knauer wrote
>
>>>>>Does anyone here know a good way of generating (pseudo) random numbers?
>>>>>C++ has a random generator but I'd like something better than that one.
>
>>>>Your University probably has several good books on this.
>
>>>Yeah, just look in the section under Snake Oil.
>
>>Does that mean you feel the University library books on science
>>are not good sources of study?
>
>Nope. I wasn't commenting on the university as the source of the
>books.
------------------------------
From: David A Molnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Websites
Date: 6 Mar 1999 17:18:04 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Greetings, i wish i had seen this newsgroup sooner, i spent 2 months writing
> a program to find out if the random number generator was REALLY random on a
> hunch. :)
> Anyway, are there any sites that anyone would recommend? Thankx
http://qso.lanl.gov/qc
http://www.counterpane.com
http://theory.lcs.mit.edu
http://www-cse.ucsd.edu/users/mihir
are some good ones that I can remember right now (lack of inclusion
doesn't mean
it's nor
worthwhile - just that
I can't remember it now)
.
> And what books are good anyway on the subject? Thank you for your time. i
_Applied Cryptography_ for an excellent introduction - Bruce Schneier.
_Handbook of Applied Cryptography_ for a book that actually pays some attention
to nitty-gritty details like the specifics
of your big integer library
_Network Security : PRIVATE communications in a PUBLIC world_ by Perlman,
Speciner, and somebody (kaufman?) for a book that
realizes you aren't implementing these algorithms
in a vacuum.
_Modern Cryptography, Probabilistic Proofs, and Pseudo-randomness_ by
Oded Goldreich for an overview of the most recent developments in the
(some?) academic realm.
-David Molnar
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: A Practical Reduced-Redundancy Bazeries Cylinder (REPOST)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 18:52:56 GMT
(This article was originally posted from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Friday
morning. Edmonton Freenet apparently is having problems with its
newsfeed.)
How could one construct a physical Bazeries cylinder - instead of a
computer version that would use a keyed stream cipher to pick the row
to
use, as W. T. Shaw has suggested - that lets you encipher _compressed_
text?
Even after some degree of compression, English text still retains
enough
redundancy to discern gibberish from plaintext. Of course, to be
practical, a simple form of compression only could be used.
Finally, after thinking in terms of the simple "straddling
checkerboard"
coding of letters to digits, I feel that if we correctly order the
four
columns needed on a disk, the result is practical to use:
One disk would look like this -
HV 2 N
WM 7 A
QP 3>>
BZ 4 O
/C 8 T
UL 1 >
D. 9 E
YF 6 R
JX 0 S
KG 5 I
and the other disks would all have different scrambled orderings of
the
symbols in the first two columns, the third column, and the fourth
column.
This way, the > or >> symbols are immediately adjacent to the letters
in
the next cylinder they point to, making it relatively easy to read off
text. (Of course, one has to then remember to skip the other half of
the
same disk.)
The idea is that something like
|JX 5 S|QC 3 E|MU 0 N|PH 4>>|KD 3 A|QJ 1 >|MF 9>>|LQ 1 O|
* * * * * *
ought, with a little practice (the fourth column would be in a bolder
style of printing, too) be recognizable at a glance as SENDMO (the
beginning of, say, SEND MONEY).
Perhaps I'm being overly sanguine...
John Savard (teneerf is spelled backwards)
http://members.xoom.com/quadibloc/index.html
------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: British Crypto Fascists
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:57:18 -0600
R. Knauer wrote
>>Britain should also round their people up in concentration camps, and
>>also make clothes for Americans. You either make clothes for
>>Americans (good Marxist), or you die.
>
>I thought that was what capitalism is all about.
Nope. Capitalism is when you have to pay people for their work, and
money, of course, is the root of all evil. Which is why we need slave
labor for the American economy to succeed. Without capitalism there
would be need for Individual Rights (IR), and no Marxists to make clothes
for them...
------------------------------
From: Michael Sierchio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New Concepts on Pseudorandomness
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 10:35:50 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Herman Rubin wrote:
> This is not of much use for most of the generators. There are some
> quite simple ones with seeds on the order of 40,000 bits. But even
> a seed of 50 bits can give an adequate cycle length. In practice,
> it is not cycle length which is the problem.
Cycle length isn't a problem for a statistician, but is a concern
for a PNRG-based stream cipher, for example.
------------------------------
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