Cryptography-Digest Digest #197, Volume #11 Fri, 25 Feb 00 03:13:01 EST
Contents:
I want to know the way of preparing C.A services... ("kim do han")
Re: How to Annoy the NSA ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Implementation of Crypto on DSP ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
QUESTION: Enigma Machine Plans, specification etc (Timothy Charles Holtom)
I had me an Idea (Dynamic Key Encription) ("Tim")
Re: Implementation of Crypto on DSP ("Joseph Ashwood")
Re: Passwords secure against dictionary attacks? (Rami Lehti)
i want to know the way of providing the C.A services... ("kim do han")
Re: Passwords secure against dictionary attacks? (Thomas Wu)
Re: - US "allows" encryption program online (wtshaw)
Re: FIRST TIME! (wtshaw)
Re: Passwords secure against dictionary attacks? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
I had a .mil account until I told about it here on the USENET in 2000 or ("Markku
J. Saarelainen")
Re: Passwords secure against dictionary attacks? ($[EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Assistance needed (Nemo psj)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "kim do han" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: I want to know the way of preparing C.A services...
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 04:36:08 GMT
hello...
i am working in the firewall company...
But our company doesn't have cryptographer...
Our company want to provide the C.A services and i wanna work
that job...
please tell me the way of providing the C.A services...
how can i prepare...?
(document,,,book,,,and programming skill .. )
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How to Annoy the NSA
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 05:11:58 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Donald S. Crankshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Jerry Coffin wrote:
> >
> > In article <879tg8$q95$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > says...
> >
> > [ ... ]
> >
> > > The safety of RSA appears to depend on the
> > > difficulty of factoring large numbers. This
> > > factoring is considered very likely to be a
> > > hard problem although it is not yet proven to
> > > be so. It is also not proven that the safety
> > > depends solely on the factoring. The main
> > > point of Peter Shor's famous algorithm is that
> > > it demonstrates that a quantum computer
> > > could factor large numbers efficiently (i.e.
> > > within polynomial time). For anyone who's
> > > interested, a good intro to codes and their
> > > vulnerability is Simon Singh's "The Code Book".
> >
> > You're still ignoring reality: we already KNOW exactly what effect a
> > quantum computer has on the amount of time it takes to factor a number
> > of a particular size. We already have the technology to continue use
> > RSA, and be protected from an attach using a quantum computer. People
> > using 2048-bit keys with RSA are already safe, even though the threat
> > is still purely theoretical.
> >
>
> I know this is an old thread, but I'm new to this group and I came
> specifically looking for views by Cryptologists on Quantum
> Computation. I work on a Quantum Computation project, so I may be able
> to contribute something to this discussion.
>
> For the record, I am not an Algorithms person. My work is more
> focused on the design of the qubit (the quantum system which stores
> the bit) itself and on the means of rotating it. Thus, I tend to be
> more focused on the physics and engineering than the algorithms, but I
> know enough about the Shor algorithm to say that 2048 bits is
> definitely not safe; at least not if the project I'm working on proves
> successful.
>
> It's important to say first that Quantum Computation is not like
> Parallelism, where you simply throw more power at the problem. What
> QC does is allow you to completely redefine how you approach the
> problem.
IF QC works it will not only change the
approach to this problem but even basic
mathematics. Mathematical truth can be held
true regardless of our knowledge of nature or
physics. However, QC could be able to do new
mathematical proofs or calculations that
would take much too long to independently
verify via a non-QC method. Based on our
knowledge of the accuracy of QC (i.e. its
physics) we will have to assume that its new
results are valid. You might want to read
Science Magazine vol. 287, pages 441 & 463 to
see a further clarification of the basic phsical
requirements for QC. Do you know if anyone at
MIT (e.g. Lloyd, Ketterle, etc.) is intersested in
actually developing the Bose condensate
approach referred to in message 1 of this
thread?
In the case of the Shor algorithm, let's say
you have b bit
> product of 2 primes. A quantum computer can solve the problem in
> O(b^2) quantum operations. A classical computer requires
> O(exp(cb^(1/3)). This is the number field sieve algorithm, the best
> known classical one. (It's much better than the slowest one, which is
> O(exp(b/2), and would take longer than the lifespan of the universe to
> factor a 2048 bit number.) I must admit that I know next to nothing
> about this algorithm aside from its order (mainly for comparison's
> sake), so I cannot say how quickly it could factor a 2048 bit number
> (mainly I don't know c). The quantum algorithm, however, would
> require on the order of 4 million quantum operations. The project I'm
> working on has an approximate quantum operation time of 10 ns, so
> we're talking on the order of .04 s to factor a 2048 bit number. Now
> I'm using the term "on the order of" a lot since there are all sorts
> of factors I'm leaving out, not to mention pre- and postprocessing.
> Like I said, I don't spend a lot of time working with the algoritms.
>
> Now, how feasible is this? Oh, the most optimistic estimate certainly
> wouldn't consider it possible in less than ten years. And that's
> being _very_ optimistic, assuming one of the solid state propositions
> works as well as we hope and that it scales quickly and easily. More
> realistically, maybe 25 years. There's also the very real possibility
> that it won't work at all--we'll be bogged down by the decoherence
> problem.
>
> Still, by the time quantum computation becomes feasible, 2048 bits
> will not be enough. And while you can increase the number of bits, it
> won't buy you as much as it once did.
>
> Oh, and as for the original subject line, "How to Annoy the NSA"...,
> who do you think funds all this quantum computation research anyway?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Donald S. Crankshaw
> http://www.mit.edu/~dscrank
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Implementation of Crypto on DSP
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 05:36:21 GMT
David A Molnar wrote:
> ... you can do Cool Stuff by manipulating the fact that every
> ARM instruction is conditional.
Of course, C compilers for the ARM do that already..
The more complex and bizarre the ISA, the more help one needs
from programs (i.e. compilers) to do the bookkeeping necessary
to correctly exploit the architecture. Since assembly-language
coding takes a lot of effort for relatively little benefit, and
the resulting program is totally unportable, it is rarely
justified. Even when it *is* justified, that is almost always
for just a tiny fraction of the overall application; the rest
should be coded in a more expressive and maintainable language.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timothy Charles Holtom)
Subject: QUESTION: Enigma Machine Plans, specification etc
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 06:04:57 GMT
Does anyone know of sites giving the specifications of the Enigma
Machine. i.e. how the rotors were wired and how the patch panel
figured in the overall design.
Thanks!!
Tim
------------------------------
From: "Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: I had me an Idea (Dynamic Key Encription)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 06:07:12 GMT
I had me an idea one day. Using an image to encrypt data. I call it Dynamic
Key Encryption, i have shown it to a few people who may or may not know much
about encryption. Most seem interested. I am curios what you think about it.
Well this is what i got.
1 image
a string of text
and a set equation( for now).
Each character in the text gets its own "small key". The key comes frome
pixels of the image. The colors of the pixels are combined with the
character value to produce and integer. after the Caricter recevs its Small
Key the algorithm moves on to the next character and pixel.
R = Red Value of the Pixel
G = Green Value of the Pixel
B = Blue Value of the Pixel
C = Character
E = Encrypted Value
E = (C+ R- G+ B) * R
C= (E / R) - R + G- B
The above text was encrypted using my program and is shown below.
74568,72865,90649,84968,85709,68913,87932,89908,68913,84968,92131,72865,9089
6,85709,89908,88920,68913,88426,95115,85956,72865,92565,91800,94848,78795,75
225,85956,89414,90896,88179,90402,72865,84968,88179,68913,86944,87932,84968,
93330,92820,68913,89661,95370,68913,92820,88179,92310,96135,90896,95625,9664
5,75225,92565,91800,96645,91800,78795,75225,85680,75225,92310,91800,94605,94
605,73185,93840,96645,75225,84405,97920,95115,88920,94860,93840,92310,75225,
86190,92820,97920,72865,84660,95115,89414,93119,97920,95625,96645,90896,9537
0,95115,78285,75225,93840,75225,93585,91800,95115,90780,75225,96390,91545,93
330,97410,95115,73185,91800,96645,75225,96645,95370,75225,91800,75225,93075,
92820,97410,75225,95625,92820,92378,95625,94605,92820,75225,97410,93585,9537
0,75225,92820,91800,97920,75225,95370,96135,75225,91884,91800,97920,75225,95
115,95370,96645,75225,94350,93075,95370,97410,75225,94860,96900,92310,93585,
73185,91800,92055,95370,96900,96645,73185,90780,93075,90270,94095,95880,9358
5,94605,91800,93330,93075,76755,73185,84660,93330,94350,96645,75225,94350,90
780,92820,92820,75225,91800,93075,96645,90780,94095,90780,94350,96645,92820,
92565,78795,73185,79040,75225,91800,94860,73185,90270,96900,94095,91800,9537
0,96390,73185,97410,93585,91800,94605,73185,95880,93330,94860,73185,96645,91
545,91800,93075,92310,73185,89760,90015,93330,94860,92565,73185,93840,96645,
74347,75225,67575,58905,47936,58710,59202,56133,48613,32505,39072,38628,3128
4,29274,17825,25300,21186,12969,23265,21780,19404,18540,14652,20196,12420,19
998,20790,18540,13680,10004,8200,10004,10004,12969,10980,11398,7844,15990,16
318,15334,15826,17190,9000,10004,10004,10004,10004,15334,12420,16810,16892,1
6728,15990,15392,15826,9620,15466,15744,10004,21285,15006,18900,18540,10791,
10980,12969,12969,14873,21828,23219,22149,15729,22684,16905,24610,22256,2564
5,16905,23920,22684,25760,23460,23861,28044,25070,23219,20049,19065,23219,28
782,30135,19065,25875,25070,25038,20172,17227,16359,15985,16359,19320,23460,
22770,27921,19065,27306,27921,27060,24495,23460,22770,25645,23000,25415,1506
5,23460,24035,15065,25645,24265,23000,15065,24725,23920,26105,25645,15985,24
150,23000,25645,29274,19065,23460,29397,29274,19065,25070,29766,28659,19065,
15295,25530,24840,23460,24725,24725,15985,24610,23000,25300,16215,17595,1598
5,21965,27921,27552,15985,24610,23000,25300,15065,23690,25070,23112,23920,23
754,15985,22363,25415,23326,28536,22256,15985,25185,28044,29889,27552,28413,
29274,19065,25070,24035,19065,29397,27921,27552,19065,26220,23112,27060,2779
8,22256,20787,17825,25461,27921,22256,19065,27306,28782,28413,28782,29151,29
274,19065,28782,27675,19065,32736,27921,27552,19065,25185,28044,29889,27552,
28413,29274,19065,27060,29151,27552,15985,23690,25070,24840,23575,22684,2495
5,24840,22149,14873,26910,25300,26565,26105,14873,23861,22577,21483,17825,21
285,26105,27140,24503,25300,25530,27485,25760,27255,17825,27715,82216,84845,
93860,89908,72865,89661,92378,68913,88673,89167,88426,89661,89908,89414,8595
6,75225,84968,92131,85709,68913,93840,92131,96645,92820,86450,85956,89167,72
371,75225,84968,86203,96645,85956,96135,75225,96645,91545,90780,68913,77558,
89760,89167,91800,85462,89661,85956,89167,75225,94095,85956,85462,90780,9511
5,94350,73185,93840,94605,94350,68913,88230,94860,91800,94605,94605,68913,86
190,92820,90896,75225,96645,93585,92820,68913,84968,94605,93330,95370,96135,
93840,96645,93585,94860,75225,94860,95370,97155,92820,96390,75225,95370,9511
5,75225,96645,95370,75225,96645,93585,92820,75225,95115,92820,95625,94605,75
225,90270,93585,91800,96135,91800,92310,96645,92820,96135,75225,91800,95115,
92565,75225,95625,93840,97665,92820,94605,78795,69615,75225,69615,87975,6891
3,82620,75225,87975,92820,85709,75225,88995,89760,87685,96900,92820,75225,95
370,93075,75225,94605,91545,92820,75225,85425,93840,95625,92820,92565,69615,
85170,75225,80580,73185,83130,94095,90780,92820,95115,73185,88995,91800,9256
5,94860,90780,73185,93330,91035,75225,94605,91545,92820,73185,85425,93840,95
625,92820,94605,69615,81855,73185,80580,68913,83895,94605,96900,92820,75225,
82251,91800,94605,96900,90780,73185,93330,91035,68913,94605,91545,92820,7318
5,85425,91800,95625,90780,92565,67575,82110,73185,80580,73185,77558,91545,89
760,94095,89760,88230,92565,88740,94095,65535,82620,75225,82620,75225,82620,
93075,74151,72816,65714,61380,52309,47402,36704,32505,28776,30228,28413,2668
0,22256,10791,12969,10791,16632,10004,15030,10980,13761,12874,11970,12420,17
919,11070,10004,13202,10906,10004,12792,10742,10004,10824,10004,13448,7544,1
0004,8200,14130,12382,10004,10660,13038,9348,12330,9348,14104,10086,7844,880
6,10004,14104,10004,10906,10004,16830,12150,10980,16335,9000,10791,10791,181
17,22577,22256,15729,22684,22791,24182,26795,22256,19065,25645,23920,25145,2
5645,14017,25990,27060,23754,15985,27552,28659,22042,29151,26220,25185,26565
,22256,22149,19065,29520,25530,24380,24955,24150,15985,23920,26220,15065,251
85,25415,28782,27798,29151,27060,24840,15985,22540,24955,22885,14017,23460,2
4610,15065,25530,24265,25070,25070,24955,15065,23575,23920,24725,25070,25990
,17595,
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Ashwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Implementation of Crypto on DSP
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 22:35:31 -0000
Probably the biggest example I have against the "relatively
little benefit" is a not so little known program called
Quake II. When they rewrote a fairly small portion of it
they saw a speed increase of around 400%, I wouldn't say
that falls into the "relatively little benefit" realm.
Of course there are even more occassions where there is
little or even negative benefit (unless you're the best) to
using assembly, there are also cases where it is more than
justified, as in the Quake example where it would not have
been playable if not for the assembly conversion.
Joe
------------------------------
From: Rami Lehti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.security.misc,alt.security.pgp
Subject: Re: Passwords secure against dictionary attacks?
Date: 25 Feb 2000 08:25:53 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matt Baney) writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What if the space between words was removed and another character
> inserted at
> regular intervals. For example
> crypto life green dog loud music
> becomes
> cryp)toli)fe gree1ndog loud2musi2c
> or maybe
> cry9pto9lif9e gre!end@og lou(dmu(sic
> or maybe
> cr-yp-to-li-fe gr1ee2nd3og lo(ud)mu(si)c
>
>
> Seems like it's still susceptible to brute force but a pure dictionary attack
> wouldn't get this would it?
If your password is created using any rules from dictionary words,
those rules can be written as rules for Crack or John The Ripper or
any other password cracking program using dictionary attacks.
My best bet would be to use first/second/third letter of each word in
a phrase known only to you mixed with few random characters. Something like:
This is a nonsensical phrase = Tia"ns!p
But be careful that you do not generate a word or a permutation of a
word with this method. If you want to be assured that you have a good
password then try to crack it before using it.
Rami
--
- Rami Lehti, Enterprise Services Finland
-- Sun Microsystems
------------------------------
From: "kim do han" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: i want to know the way of providing the C.A services...
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:14:05 GMT
hello...
i am working in the firewall company...
But our company doesn't have cryptographer...
Our company want to provide the C.A services and i wanna work
that job...
please tell me the way of providing the C.A services...
how can i prepare...?
(document,,,book,,,and programming skill .. )
------------------------------
From: Thomas Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.security.misc,alt.security.pgp
Subject: Re: Passwords secure against dictionary attacks?
Date: 24 Feb 2000 23:15:55 -0800
Tom Holroyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> One way is to download SRP and install it. It's a drop in replacement for
> the standard passwd tools on Unix and includes instructions for NIS.
>
> http://berlin.arcot.com/srp/
The "official" URL for SRP is <http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/>.
> It's also safe to use over the net (it comes with versions of telnet,
> ftp). The current version (1.5.0) doesn't replace all the libraries,
> though, so you may also want to (or at least) install md5crypt, available
> all over the place. It simply replaces the crypt() function (which uses
> DES) with an MD5 version (that also uses salt).
The MD5 and crypt() formats are obsoleted by the EPS password format,
which is used by the SRP distribution.
> Also, send mail to your OS vendor asking THEM to do this.
--
Tom Wu * finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP key *
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Those who would give up their freedoms in
Phone: (650) 723-1565 exchange for security deserve neither."
http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~tjw/ http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (wtshaw)
Crossposted-To: alt.sources.crypto,talk.politics.crypto,us.legal
Subject: Re: - US "allows" encryption program online
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:45:16 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Isaac) wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 01:03:11 GMT, Charles R. Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >It looked to me like this is an attempt to avoid going to court and
> >setting a precident. I hopes he keeps it in court.
> >
> That might not be easy. Courts are not going to decide philosophical points
> with no fact situations behind them. If Bernstein has permission to do
> what he wants, and his current court case is moot, a new case will be
> necessary to resolve any unanswered issues.
>
Bernstein's case is over a set of rules at a certain time. It is often
the case that such circumstances are critical to a case. The government
might drop the original case, rendering things now as mute, but they want
him to cowtow to them instead, follow a new set of regulations, and
whatever might come later. Go get 'em guy.
--
Poor George. He thinks he can raise all the money he should ever
need to win, again. And, he does not seem to realize that he needs
all the votes he can get, from anybody, to win the presidency.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (wtshaw)
Subject: Re: FIRST TIME!
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:26:36 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mok-Kong Shen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It seems to me that you are somehow leading away from the part
> of the original post that has solid connection with cryptology.
> The turning grille does perform some non-trivial encryption.
> I am not quite sure you are in possession of techniques to crack
> it off the hand.
>
Gaines has a good write up on it. Funny thing, after revising a paper
today, I was messing around with grilles, which can be of several types.
All are considered trivial once you identify the type.
I've thought about how to do a program for them, so I make a note on the
subject from time to time. Grilles are at best a redundant transposition
cipher, just look harder that the are. The trick in programming is to
build a sensible key structure, and electronically turn that into a
permutation to apply to the message.
--
Regarding healthcare, when GWB became govenor, Texas was 43 in
the nation, now we are 49th. And, I need not tell you about his
bloody support of the death penalty. Reformer?
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.security.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Passwords secure against dictionary attacks?
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:17:11 GMT
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
JimD wrote:
> >Don't use *any* word in *any* language!
>
> How about ten English words with different punctuation symbols
> as word separators?
do you mean that 'English' is not '*any* language' ? :-)
- --
Disastry
http://i.am/disastry/
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------------------------------
From: "Markku J. Saarelainen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.politics.org.cia,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,alt.security,alt.2600,alt.2600.hackers
Subject: I had a .mil account until I told about it here on the USENET in 2000 or
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:29:53 GMT
Ok .. my way was to be in the military intelligence network ....
Yes, this was my email address - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - actually the
domain name has changed a couple of times msis.dmso.mil or triton ..
etc. .. basically, I was doing some research on complex distributed
environments for the modern warfare based on information processing
technologies and electronic data networks. You know those things that
you see in TV shows. I received all kinds of stuff and I also had the
PPP/SLIP access and also was invited to be a developer in InterLink as I
know it - the modern Intelligence Community Data Management System or
Network and I accepted the invitation. Actually, I did monitor and
participate in the program since the mid of 1993. It is very strange how
I have had so many military experiences and contacts or is it? I used
this system quite frequently in the beginning especially and basically
just did my research. I have the listing of all Infrastructure Security
Commitee people from 1993 and so. Some people who are have some popular
encryption applications currently are in this list - the covert action
-- so many encryption products have their security vulnerabilities that
are known by those who have designed these vulnerabilities together with
the NSA.
Actually I could just post my zipped files onto the USENET for your
enjoyment, but they are about 10-15 MB.
Their web page is at
http://www.dmso.mil/
I actually downloaded all personnel listings and other people names and
I do have these with me. I may have to start playing my game with these
people. The Game of General - M !
Best regards,
Markku
P.S. Those people who ask what my career has been in the past .. I
sometimes wonder it even by myself .. but I am surely one Security
Intelligence Specialist with interests in all aspects of security
intelligence.
------------------------------
From: $[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Passwords secure against dictionary attacks?
Crossposted-To: comp.security.misc,alt.security.pgp
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:33:47 GMT
In comp.security.misc Alun Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Seriously though, this is often a failing of security policies - make your
> security policy unwieldy and difficult to implement, and you run the risk
> that your users will find their own ways to subvert it. I remember one
Very, Very well said Alun.
BTW, I'm in the process of implementing a password policy for my office of
about ~30 people... what is a good password expiry... 30, 45, or 60 days?
I'm kinda partial to 45.. such a rotation would prevent month-based
passwords ie: judyjan judyfeb judymar, etc etc.
Another method of passwd generation: Concatenating phrases. Take a common
phrase such as "Dont hate me because Im beautiful", and take the first
letter of each word, retain punctuation, then Skr1pt kiddy it.. you end up with:
dhmb1'b.
Easily remembered, nice size, and never gonna be dictionaried.
--
...........................................................................
"..no person in full command of his mental faculties, and with even the
slightest understanding of what happened in World War II, can deny that
the tragedy actually happened, however much we dissident historians
may wish to quibble about the means, the scale, the dates and other
minutiae."
-Historian David Irving, accused of 'holocaust denial'.
...........................................................................
www.geocities.com/pentagon/bunker/1022 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nemo psj)
Subject: Re: Assistance needed
Date: 25 Feb 2000 07:52:25 GMT
Ok for the person who said i should explain my algy in full detail i have
done so! It's at www.puregold.cjb.net(click on method the zip should then
download) i had a rather crude explaination up before and it didnt make any
sence. Also if anyone would like to comment on what they think of it feel
free to do so.
-Pure
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