Cryptography-Digest Digest #363, Volume #12 Sat, 5 Aug 00 20:13:01 EDT
Contents:
Re: Multiple encryption passes (Jim)
Re: David Scott's website (John Savard)
Re: New William Friedman Crypto Patent (filed in 1933) (wtshaw)
Re: New William Friedman Crypto Patent (filed in 1933) (Terry Ritter)
Re: Multiple encryption passes (Terry Ritter)
Re: New William Friedman Crypto Patent (filed in 1933) ("Ed Suominen")
Re: ciphers in usenet posts (wtshaw)
Re: New William Friedman Crypto Patent (filed in 1933) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Hashing Algorithms (George)
Re: just saw a pre-release copy of Schneier's new book on ebay (Tim Tyler)
Re: just saw a pre-release copy of Schneier's new book on ebay (jungle)
Re: just saw a pre-release copy of Schneier's new book on ebay (JPeschel)
Vote for Ralph Nader. (Robert Torricelli)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim)
Subject: Re: Multiple encryption passes
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 18:18:08 GMT
Reply-To: Jim
On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:18:18 GMT, AllanW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>My proposal is to use more than one pass through the data
>when encrypting it. The first pass would take the plaintext
>and produce the first ciphertext, which I will call C1.
>Nothing in C1 would indicate which algorithm was used to
>create it. Then the second pass -- using a completely
>different method of encryption -- would encrypt C1 into C2.
>Again, nothing in C2 would indicate which type of encryption
>was used. And so on until we feel that the data is secure
>enough.
Why bother? If your first algo is going to take 100 years
to break and the second 50 years, you're wasting your
time aren't you?
--
Jim Dunnett
amadeus at netcomuk.co.uk
nordland at lineone.net
g4rga at thersgb.net
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: Re: David Scott's website
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 19:18:19 GMT
On 5 Aug 2000 14:48:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY) wrote, in part:
> As many of you know my hobbies are encryption and compression.
>I have been to busy to give justice to each. But I will have more
>time soon.
I hope my little section - under armor, rather than compression -
recently added about converting bits optimally to Morse Code in five
letter groups serves to show you that I am not *entirely* ignorant of
information theory. Even if I'm still learning about new things, such
as Tunstall codes.
I have good news about my web site too: since reorganizing the site
into subdirectories, just days ago, my site made it back to Google, so
searches will now turn up my pages on many cryptographic topics.
John Savard (teneerf <-)
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (wtshaw)
Subject: Re: New William Friedman Crypto Patent (filed in 1933)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 13:24:40 -0600
In article <8mhljp$6r1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bill Unruh) wrote:
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(John Savard) writes:
>
> I thought that the US patent law had recently been ammended to makeing a
> patent valid for 20 years after filing, not the old 17 years after
> issue. Is this correct? This would make this patent outdated before it
> was issued.
But it would prohibit a competing filing. If all secrets are the basis
for patents to be obtained as "needed," then all the advances made in
secret could threaten the success of other advances made in public.
Remember, a governmental goal has long been to control financial gains in
the crypto area so as to discourage them. How could anyone dispute claims
to prior art anyway. It is not beyond the government, particularily the
sneaky side, to deal in fictions to further causes.
If something Friedman did is allowed to surface, surely it was a result of
pondering what benefits this could bring them. Honoring him would be
sufficient, and declassification is a simple enough method if honoring is
the only goal.
--
Free Circus soon to appear in Los Angeles, complete with a
expectation of lots of braying, and noisy clowns in undignified
costumes performing slight of logic, and, lots of balloons.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Ritter)
Subject: Re: New William Friedman Crypto Patent (filed in 1933)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:18:30 GMT
On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 19:05:55 GMT, in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
in sci.crypt [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard) wrote:
>On 5 Aug 2000 18:15:21 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh) wrote,
>in part:
>>In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John
>Savard) writes:
>
>>I thought that the US patent law had recently been ammended to makeing a
>>patent valid for 20 years after filing, not the old 17 years after
>>issue. Is this correct? This would make this patent outdated before it
>>was issued.
>
>That's correct, but probably the amendment also stated 'whichever is
>greater' or something like that.
A paragraph on the front of one my recent patents says:
"If this application was filed prior to June 8, 1995, the term of this
patent is the longer of seventeen years from the date of grant of this
patent or twenty years from the earliest effective U.S. filing date of
the application, subject to any statutory extension."
---
Terry Ritter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.io.com/~ritter/
Crypto Glossary http://www.io.com/~ritter/GLOSSARY.HTM
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Ritter)
Subject: Re: Multiple encryption passes
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:18:54 GMT
On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 18:18:08 GMT, in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, in sci.crypt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim) wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:18:18 GMT, AllanW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>My proposal is to use more than one pass through the data
>>when encrypting it. The first pass would take the plaintext
>>and produce the first ciphertext, which I will call C1.
>>Nothing in C1 would indicate which algorithm was used to
>>create it. Then the second pass -- using a completely
>>different method of encryption -- would encrypt C1 into C2.
>>Again, nothing in C2 would indicate which type of encryption
>>was used. And so on until we feel that the data is secure
>>enough.
>
>Why bother? If your first algo is going to take 100 years
>to break and the second 50 years, you're wasting your
>time aren't you?
Sure. *IF* the first cipher is guaranteed to take 100 years to break.
And if we had that sort of guarantee, we might only need that one
cipher. But since we don't . . . .
---
Terry Ritter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.io.com/~ritter/
Crypto Glossary http://www.io.com/~ritter/GLOSSARY.HTM
------------------------------
From: "Ed Suominen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New William Friedman Crypto Patent (filed in 1933)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:19:42 -0700
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
The law was changed in 1995 and only affects patent applications
filed after then. The Friedman patent was filed much earlier than
that, so the 17-year term applies to it.
Interestingly, the application could only have been locked up for 67
years because of a determination by a branch of the government that
it would have posed a threat to national security. I wonder why they
waited until now to decide that cryptography using mechanical wheels
no longer posed a security threat. I also wonder if it has anything
to do with the recent lifting of export restrictions, which the NSA
undoubtedly didn't like.
Before we jump to too many conclusions, though, the patent claims
*seem* to only cover security devices with mechanical wheels.
(Disclaimer: I don't provide legal opinions on scope of issued
claims, except where it is necessary and incident to getting a client
proper patent protection.) So my initial thought that NSA wanted to
try to block all strong crypto via patent probably was unfounded.
Plus, NSA would never do anything nasty like that, now, would they?
This message is only PGP signed to indicate my authorship of it.
Nothing in this message is to be construed as legal advice, or the
opinion of my firm or any client.
- -------------------------------------------------
Ed Suominen
Registered Patent Agent
Web Site: http://eepatents.com
PGP Public Key: http://eepatents.com/key
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"Bill Unruh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8mhljp$6r1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(John Savard) writes:
>
> I thought that the US patent law had recently been ammended to makeing a
> patent valid for 20 years after filing, not the old 17 years after
> issue. Is this correct? This would make this patent outdated before it
> was issued.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (wtshaw)
Subject: Re: ciphers in usenet posts
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 13:34:43 -0600
In article <8mga2c$6v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Several times I have seen encrypted text in news posts. Is there some
> standard way to decipher these messages?
>
There are an unspecified number of algorithms that can produce
easy-looking results. They might be easy or not. Part of a deception may
be in making something look common when it is not. Curiosity did not
inspire me to attack the ciphertext you presented, as even to word
divisions might have nothing to do with the plaintext.
--
Free Circus soon to appear in Los Angeles, complete with a
expectation of lots of braying, and noisy clowns in undignified
costumes performing slight of logic, and, lots of balloons.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New William Friedman Crypto Patent (filed in 1933)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:30:17 GMT
Ed Suominen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Interestingly, the application could only have been locked up for 67
> years because of a determination by a branch of the government that
> it would have posed a threat to national security. I wonder why they
> waited until now to decide that cryptography using mechanical wheels
> no longer posed a security threat. I also wonder if it has anything
> to do with the recent lifting of export restrictions, which the NSA
> undoubtedly didn't like.
Of course, the NSA also has a finite (although large) budget, so there
may be a simple reason for the delay. They could be 50 years
backlogged in reviewing material for declassification. (I mean, I
doubt that's their most heavily funded endevor :) It could also be
that the secrecy order was dated for review at a long time in the
future or renewed a couple times.
Odds are, in 1933 the patent was sufficiently advanced that it got
stuffed in a box labeled "Do not open for 50 years" It certainly
wouldn't be the first time classified information has hung around so
long it's released to a simple "Duh."
------------------------------
From: George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Hashing Algorithms
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 15:45:28 -0500
First I'd like to thank everyone for the speedy responses to my last question
about IDEA. I have done some research on hashing algorithms, and I have been
told that the best hashing algorithms are MD5 and SHA. Am I outdated again
with my resources? What is the most "secure" hashing algorithm available to
the public today? Thank you for your time.
--
-George
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: just saw a pre-release copy of Schneier's new book on ebay
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:55:13 GMT
Ben Liberman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...] Bruce Schneier's New Book: Secrets and Lies [...]
See also: http://www.counterpane.com/sandl.html
--
__________ Lotus Artificial Life http://alife.co.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|im |yler The Mandala Centre http://mandala.co.uk/ Namaste.
------------------------------
From: jungle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: just saw a pre-release copy of Schneier's new book on ebay
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 18:11:55 -0400
it's not a book ...
Ben Liberman wrote:
> I'm not a collector myself but, for anyone interested, I was wandering
> eBay and came across:
>
> "Signed Pre-Release Copy of Bruce Schneier's New Book: Secrets and Lies"
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=401272439
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JPeschel)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 22:34:29 GMT
Subject: Re: just saw a pre-release copy of Schneier's new book on ebay
jungle [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>it's not a book ...
>
>Ben Liberman wrote:
>> I'm not a collector myself but, for anyone interested, I was wandering
>> eBay and came across:
>>
>> "Signed Pre-Release Copy of Bruce Schneier's New Book: Secrets and Lies"
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=401272439
Sure sounds like a book to me: uncorrected galley proofs with a cover,
and signed by Bruce. Might be worth bidding on.
Joe
__________________________________________
Joe Peschel
D.O.E. SysWorks
http://members.aol.com/jpeschel/index.htm
__________________________________________
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: japan.test
From: Robert Torricelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Vote for Ralph Nader.
Date: 5 Aug 2000 23:16:30 GMT
5 Aug 2000 23:21:25 GMT
It's hard for me to believe that the next president of the United
States will be George W. Bush or Al Gore. Both remind me of
Hollywood movies that have been focus-grouped to death: they
push all the appropriate buttons, but have zero original vision.
Both stand for the same thing: corporate-driven business as usual.
There must be some way outta here.
Ralph Nader is no joker or thief. I think he and the Greens could
give Al & George a good run for their money. At 65, Nader isn't
running as fast as he used to, and the Green Party doesn't exactly
have its platform figured out, but I think they have what it takes to
inject a dose of radical democracy into the race. Unlike the two
Tweedles, Nader is real, he stands for decency and common
sense and he still commands a lot of respect in progressive and
activist circles. And hidden behind the rainbow coalition of lefties,
eco-feminists and crazies, the Green Party does have some great
ideas. It's the only party that stands for the Tobin Tax, true cost
markets, media reform and putting corporations in their place.
In October, with a fired-up Nader hurling intelligent sound bites
into the presidential debates, the whole game show might actually be
worth watching. The alternative is the most sophomoric
presidential race in American history . . . and the lowest voter
turnout ever.
I'm putting a GO GREEN - VOTE NADER graphic at the end of all
my emails from now on. I'm betting that, between now and November,
the American people will wake up to the fact that their sacred
democratic experiment has now degenerated into a choice between a
corporate-sponsored Republican and a corporate-sponsored Democrat.
In these heady post-WTO days, a sudden, massive protest vote
against Al & George is entirely possible and Nader would be the
most apparent heir. With perhaps less than 25 percent of the
people voting, an inspired Nader campaign could grab a surprising
share of the action. And even if he does not come close to
winning, at least imagine how his campaign might pull together
some of the fired-up, post-WTO forces and lay the groundwork for
something really visionary in 2004.
Download the graphics and help launch an email pyramid scheme
to dump the Tweedles! Two formats are available, a magazine
sticker (17K) or a Banner ad (5K):
Sticker ... http://adbusters.org/magazine/30/nader/tweedles.jpg
Banner .... http://adbusters.org/magazine/30/nader/Tweedles.gif
Your elected representative,
Robert Torricelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Go Green Vote Nader ... http://www.greens.org/
Vote Nader Go Green ... http://www.votenader.org/
Nader Email Pyramids ... http://adbusters.org/magazine/30/nader
Donate to The Greens ... http://www.greenparty.org/donate.html
The Green Candidates ... http://www.greenparty.org/candidates.html
Greens USA Platform .... http://www.greenparty.org/Platform061100.html
Is Cameron Greenish? ... http://petra.greens.org/~cls/homepage.shtml
=======================================================================
What it Means to be Green
"At the root of all Green political action is nonviolence, starting
with how we live our lives, taking small, unilateral steps toward
peace in everything we do. Green politics requires us to be both
tender and subversive. Affirming tenderness as a political value is
already subversive. In Green politics, we practice tenderness in
relations with others; in caring for ideas, art, language, and
culture; and in cherishing and protecting the Earth. To think Green
is to build solidarity with those working for social justice and human
rights everywhere, not bound by ideologies."
-Petra Kelly
=======================================================================
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------------------------------
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