Cryptography-Digest Digest #428, Volume #13 Sat, 6 Jan 01 18:13:01 EST
Contents:
Re: Need of very simple algorithms? ("Paul Pires")
Re: Norway Maple MANNA haven for aphids -- a poem! (Ed Augusts)
Re: Differential Analysis (Tom St Denis)
Re: Norway Maple MANNA haven for aphids -- a poem! ("Mikal 606")
Re: Key scheduling (John Savard)
Re: Comets, Meteors, and Mitotic Spindles (John Savard)
Re: Norway Maple MANNA haven for aphids -- a poem! (Ed Augusts)
Re: Unsolved Elgar Cipher... (Jim)
Re: Norway Maple MANNA haven for aphids -- a poem! ("Mikal 606")
Help needed on plaintext cypher ("Keith")
Re: Comets, Meteors, and Mitotic Spindles /Mars Life angle (Ed Augusts)
Password security for file transfer w/o speed loss? (Bob Babcock)
Re: Unsolved Elgar Cipher... (Matt Hall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Pires" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Need of very simple algorithms?
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 11:48:00 -0800
Mok-Kong Shen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> While very high qualtiy algorithms like AES and RSA are
> certainly indispensible for secure communications, I suppose
> that there is also a practical need for the other extreme,
> namely very simple and (in consequence) low quality ones.
> Plenty of people are nowadays sending SMS messages to one
> another, often en route. What can one do to obtain some degree
> of security for such messages (assuming that nothing of the
> genre of a palmtop is available)? Perhaps we could collect
> some useful ideas in this thread. One viable device that comes
> to my mind is the Jefferson cylinder. I have seen a modern
> fabrication of it as a toy but that has only a small number of
> disks and is very clumsily dimensioned. A better design would
> probably be appropriate to use and convenient to be carried
> around. Note that it is also possible to do multiple encryption
> with the device (see wtshaw's web page) to get higher security.
I have also seen a bunch of cheeper and much more capable
electronic toys. I was wondering why you feel a need to limit
the possible solutions to a mechanical apparatus.
My apologies if my comments are off track but...
What are "SMS messages"? You can probably
guess that I don't have anything usefull and on
topic but I don't understand the target need
as you discribe it.
As per your characterization:
"very simple and (in consequence) low quality ones"
I see this all the time, in different themes. It doesn't seem self-
evident to me. RC-4 seems very simple as well as fast and yet
I don't think I'd call it "Low quality". Was your comment
directed at specific types of ciphers (Block) or Special uses that
a stream cipher just can't satisfy? RC-4 may have a few warts but
I don't think some simulation of a rotor machine would be faster
or simpler.
You mention that a palmtop might not be availiable, What level
of computational support are you looking to satisfy? A PDA?
A programmable calculator ? (Do they still make those?)
A pencil and paper?
I'm really sticking my neck out here but I don't think we're hitting
the wall yet on small, fast and secure. There is still a lot of room
for improvement.
Paul
> M. K. Shen
> ---------------------------
> http://home.t-online.de/home/mok-kong.shen
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Ed Augusts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: sci.geo.earthquakes,alt.fluid-dynamics,alt.sci.astro.eclipses
Subject: Re: Norway Maple MANNA haven for aphids -- a poem!
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:59:26 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Correction here:
>
> The Norway Maple is NOT A. Saccharinum,
>
> but called "Platanoides" or "King Crimson".
>
> It secrets a milky substance that seems to attract aphids in cosmic
> numbers.
>
> The Norway Maple groves actually RAIN honeydew, the sweet cakes that
> fed the Israelites in the Desert, thanks to Moses, patron saint of
> insects perhaps?
>
> The Gall Mites [aphids] create huge SPINDLES on the leafs, etc. of the
> Norway Maple, so your parallel with mitotic spindles in cell wall and
> insulin ATP AMP adenylate cyclase processes is not so far fetched.
> This same concept is used in cloning and human cloning experiments.
>
> I'm so happy we are having a truly energizing debate here, and not
> something saccharine.
>
> B. Traven [aka "Bee"]
>
>
So the Norway Maple secretes a milky goo
That attracts seismologists and aphids, too.
Cosmic numbers of these are often arriving
And Gall Mites, too, who aren't downsizing
but create huge spindles on the leafs, etcet,
though how they got into this I don't quite get!
Say, how does 'honeydew that rains down' on their noses
Get linked to the desert and the
Sweet cakes of Moses
upon which all Israel's children were nourished?
Norwegian Maples in the Sinai!
Is that where they flourished?
--E.A.
.
------------------------------
From: Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Differential Analysis
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 21:11:55 GMT
In article <937nrs$vhb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Simon Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The bit i never get with this. Is that we find say the highest prob
> output difference, then what?
Then you exploit it.
If you know the input pairs that exhibit the difference (in the output)
then by sending random pairs (that differ by the correct amount) and
exhibit the output difference you can guess what the key may have been.
Simple example:
Let's say the input difference of '1' makes an output difference of '1'
with a prob of 4/256. That means there are two pairs that exibit the
difference. Let's say (0, 1) and (2,3) are our pairs. Then if I send
(4,5) into the function and get (7,8) as the two outputs (i.e you have
vectors of the form vec A = <4, F(4)> and vec B = <5, F(5)> and the
difference between the two vectors is B-A = <1, 1>) then we can guess
the key may have been 4 or 2.
This is all using addition in Z not in GF(2) of course.
Tom
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Mikal 606" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: sci.geo.earthquakes,alt.fluid-dynamics,alt.sci.astro.eclipses
Subject: Re: Norway Maple MANNA haven for aphids -- a poem!
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 16:36:48 -0500
"Ed Augusts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Correction here:
> >
> > The Norway Maple is NOT A. Saccharinum,
> >
> > but called "Platanoides" or "King Crimson".
> >
> > It secrets a milky substance that seems to attract aphids in cosmic
> > numbers.
> >
> > The Norway Maple groves actually RAIN honeydew, the sweet cakes that
> > fed the Israelites in the Desert, thanks to Moses, patron saint of
> > insects perhaps?
> >
> > The Gall Mites [aphids] create huge SPINDLES on the leafs, etc. of the
> > Norway Maple, so your parallel with mitotic spindles in cell wall and
> > insulin ATP AMP adenylate cyclase processes is not so far fetched.
> > This same concept is used in cloning and human cloning experiments.
> >
> > I'm so happy we are having a truly energizing debate here, and not
> > something saccharine.
> >
> > B. Traven [aka "Bee"]
> >
> >
> So the Norway Maple secretes a milky goo
> That attracts seismologists and aphids, too.
> Cosmic numbers of these are often arriving
> And Gall Mites, too, who aren't downsizing
> but create huge spindles on the leafs, etcet,
> though how they got into this I don't quite get!
>
> Say, how does 'honeydew that rains down' on their noses
> Get linked to the desert and the
> Sweet cakes of Moses
> upon which all Israel's children were nourished?
> Norwegian Maples in the Sinai!
> Is that where they flourished?
>
> --E.A.
>
>
>
> .
``This is the thrilling conversation you've been waiting for"!
Harvey Danger
King James Version
Track 9
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: Re: Key scheduling
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:12:53 GMT
On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:38:19 -0600, Doug Kuhlman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote, in part:
>Why? What attacks (if any) are there against the simpler key scheduling
>algorithms? Is there a gain? If so, what?
Take a look at the key schedule of DES, which is relatively simple
(the bits are rearranged, but not changed) but still has some
irregularities, and the key schedule of LUCIFER, which is simple and
uniform.
LUCIFER is very weak against differential cryptanalysis, while DES is
just strong enough to resist that attack, precisely because of the
difference in key schedules.
The AES candidates were designed to resist differential cryptanalysis,
yet with key schedules that ran faster in software than that of DES
(which was optimized for hardware).
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Crossposted-To: sci.geo.earthquakes,alt.fluid-dynamics,alt.sci.astro.eclipses
Subject: Re: Comets, Meteors, and Mitotic Spindles
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:08:37 GMT
On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:47:12 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, in
part:
>Myself, I always thought it was clear to all schoolchildren that
>asteroids are lava chunks spewed out by volcanoes here on Earth and
>elsewhere, that fly out of the planet's orbit into space.
Volcanoes don't have enough force to shoot lava off the earth with
escape velocity. What is clear to all schoolchildren is this:
asteroids were formed from the same material that the Earth and the
other planets orbiting the Sun were. The asteroid belt is in a
location where a planet would have formed, were it not for Jupiter's
large gravity.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: Ed Augusts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: sci.geo.earthquakes,alt.fluid-dynamics,alt.sci.astro.eclipses
Subject: Re: Norway Maple MANNA haven for aphids -- a poem!
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:29:58 GMT
Mikal 606 wrote:
>
> "Ed Augusts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > Correction here:
> > >
> > > The Norway Maple is NOT A. Saccharinum,
> > >
> > > but called "Platanoides" or "King Crimson".
> > >
> > > It secrets a milky substance that seems to attract aphids in cosmic
> > > numbers.
> > >
> > > The Norway Maple groves actually RAIN honeydew, the sweet cakes that
> > > fed the Israelites in the Desert, thanks to Moses, patron saint of
> > > insects perhaps?
> > >
> > > The Gall Mites [aphids] create huge SPINDLES on the leafs, etc. of the
> > > Norway Maple, so your parallel with mitotic spindles in cell wall and
> > > insulin ATP AMP adenylate cyclase processes is not so far fetched.
> > > This same concept is used in cloning and human cloning experiments.
> > >
> > > I'm so happy we are having a truly energizing debate here, and not
> > > something saccharine.
> > >
> > > B. Traven [aka "Bee"]
> > >
> > >
> > So the Norway Maple secretes a milky goo
> > That attracts seismologists and aphids, too.
> > Cosmic numbers of these are often arriving
> > And Gall Mites, too, who aren't downsizing
> > but create huge spindles on the leafs, etcet,
> > though how they got into this I don't quite get!
> >
> > Say, how does 'honeydew that rains down' on their noses
> > Get linked to the desert and the
> > Sweet cakes of Moses
> > upon which all Israel's children were nourished?
> > Norwegian Maples in the Sinai!
> > Is that where they flourished?
> >
> > --E.A.
> >
> >
> >
> > .
>
> ``This is the thrilling conversation you've been waiting for"!
> Harvey Danger
> King James Version
> Track 9
Coming in on TRACK number NINE
I'm glad you thought to send us a line.
So are you, then, some kind of 'LONE RANGER?'
Harvey? Oh, Harvey? HARVEY DANGER?
Though I'm glad you have no stated aversion
to what is called the KING JAMES VERSION!
Carry the Good Book about, just as you do,
You take care of It and It takes care of you!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim)
Crossposted-To: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Unsolved Elgar Cipher...
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:42:53 GMT
Reply-To: Jim
On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:36:15 -0000, "Rob Marston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>For those who are interesting in an old challenge's
>we are trying to start an E-group to look into this
>1897 puzzle...
For those who are interested in what?
--
___________________________________________
Posted by Jim Dunnett
dynastic at cwcom.net
nordland at lineone.net
'Fire reported at incinerator'
- Dundee Courier
------------------------------
From: "Mikal 606" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: sci.geo.earthquakes,alt.fluid-dynamics,alt.sci.astro.eclipses
Subject: Re: Norway Maple MANNA haven for aphids -- a poem!
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:42:19 -0500
"Ed Augusts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Mikal 606 wrote:
> >
> > "Ed Augusts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Correction here:
> > > >
> > > > The Norway Maple is NOT A. Saccharinum,
> > > >
> > > > but called "Platanoides" or "King Crimson".
> > > >
> > > > It secrets a milky substance that seems to attract aphids in cosmic
> > > > numbers.
> > > >
> > > > The Norway Maple groves actually RAIN honeydew, the sweet cakes that
> > > > fed the Israelites in the Desert, thanks to Moses, patron saint of
> > > > insects perhaps?
> > > >
> > > > The Gall Mites [aphids] create huge SPINDLES on the leafs, etc. of
the
> > > > Norway Maple, so your parallel with mitotic spindles in cell wall
and
> > > > insulin ATP AMP adenylate cyclase processes is not so far fetched.
> > > > This same concept is used in cloning and human cloning experiments.
> > > >
> > > > I'm so happy we are having a truly energizing debate here, and not
> > > > something saccharine.
> > > >
> > > > B. Traven [aka "Bee"]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > So the Norway Maple secretes a milky goo
> > > That attracts seismologists and aphids, too.
> > > Cosmic numbers of these are often arriving
> > > And Gall Mites, too, who aren't downsizing
> > > but create huge spindles on the leafs, etcet,
> > > though how they got into this I don't quite get!
> > >
> > > Say, how does 'honeydew that rains down' on their noses
> > > Get linked to the desert and the
> > > Sweet cakes of Moses
> > > upon which all Israel's children were nourished?
> > > Norwegian Maples in the Sinai!
> > > Is that where they flourished?
> > >
> > > --E.A.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> >
> > ``This is the thrilling conversation you've been waiting for"!
> > Harvey Danger
> > King James Version
> > Track 9
>
> Coming in on TRACK number NINE
> I'm glad you thought to send us a line.
> So are you, then, some kind of 'LONE RANGER?'
> Harvey? Oh, Harvey? HARVEY DANGER?
Named by syncretic orbits!
Dramar Ankalle!
Apollyon!
ServaNT
> Though I'm glad you have no stated aversion
> to what is called the KING JAMES VERSION!
> Carry the Good Book about, just as you do,
> You take care of It and It takes care of you!
yup
------------------------------
From: "Keith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: rec.puzzles
Subject: Help needed on plaintext cypher
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:47:24 -0000
I need help to decipher a seasonal message in a devious
christmas quiz. I'm no cryptographer, so I haven't a chance with this. All
assistance welcomed. Help will be acknowledged in our answer.
Thanks, Keith
The quiz question reads:
An easy cipher this year, though the following plaintext is not easy at all.
THE HOLIDAY SEASON IS KEPT FOR THE PIANISTS, BUT THEY PRAY THAT ANY MUSICAL
PIECE (HARMONIOUS OR OTHERWISE) IS LESS THAN AN HOUR LONG. THE TIME MUSIC
PLEASANTLY OCCUPIES IS TIME THAT PEOPLE AND ANGELS CAN RELAX.
------------------------------
From: Ed Augusts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: sci.geo.earthquakes,alt.fluid-dynamics,alt.sci.astro.eclipses
Subject: Re: Comets, Meteors, and Mitotic Spindles /Mars Life angle
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:42:25 GMT
John Savard wrote:
>
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:47:12 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, in
> part:
>
> >Myself, I always thought it was clear to all schoolchildren that
> >asteroids are lava chunks spewed out by volcanoes here on Earth and
> >elsewhere, that fly out of the planet's orbit into space.
>
> Volcanoes don't have enough force to shoot lava off the earth with
> escape velocity. What is clear to all schoolchildren is this:
> asteroids were formed from the same material that the Earth and the
> other planets orbiting the Sun were. The asteroid belt is in a
> location where a planet would have formed, were it not for Jupiter's
> large gravity.
>
> John Savard
> http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
I BELIEVE YOU! But then, could someone please tell me how scientists
could, with a straight face, claim that meteorites that contain
microscopic traces of possible life and crashed on earth must have
anciently originated on the PLANET MARS??? I never swallowed THAT one!
I thought: Hmmmmm! To quote Dylan: "There is something happenin'
here, and You don't Know what it is, Do You, Mr. Jones?" Are they
preparing us for the idea of life on Mars? Are they desperately trying
to raise support for more missions to Mars? DON'T TELL ME an asteroid
grazed Mars, sending up a chunk of rock from its surface that afterwards
landed here on Earth. I do not believe any such crap. I especially
don't believe its Martian origin could be in any believable way traced.
Nor that something could escape into space from the orbit of Mars and
happen to enter our orbit, 60-odd million miles away, AND survive our
atmosphere, AND happen to show vestigial building blocks or life or
possible microbial lifeforms inside. Nyet! Nada! Zilch! Nein!
Forget it!
------------------------------
Subject: Password security for file transfer w/o speed loss?
From: Bob Babcock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 23:03:43 GMT
At my office, we're getting ready to disable telnet and ftp, forcing the use
of ssh, sftp, etc. The problem is, sftp and scp seem to be at least 20x
slower than ftp, and for some users, this is a big problem. We're only
interested in protecting username/password; the files being transferred are
not sensitive. What I think we need is a transfer protocol that only
encrypts the login info. (I assume it's the encryption overhead that slows
things down. The sort of slowdown we're seeing is 5 MB/sec for ftp, 150
KB/sec for sftp.)
I've seen many references to routing the ftp control channel through ssh, but
this requires using passive mode. We don't like that because it requires
opening up ports that we now have closed. Are there any other options?
We've got unix, pc and mac users, but it's probably mostly the unix users
that need more speed.
------------------------------
From: Matt Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Unsolved Elgar Cipher...
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:06:19 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jim wrote:
> For those who are interested in what?
Not interestED, interestING in an old challenge's. Jeez, can't you read?
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to sci.crypt.
End of Cryptography-Digest Digest
******************************
