Cryptography-Digest Digest #412, Volume #14 Tue, 22 May 01 20:13:00 EDT
Contents:
Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC? ("Julian Morrison")
Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC? (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY)
Re: survey (Paul Rubin)
Re: "computationally impossible" and cryptographic hashs ("Paul Pires")
Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC? ("Julian Morrison")
Re: survey ("Tom St Denis")
Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC? ("Tom St Denis")
Re: survey ("Paul Pires")
Re: survey ("Tom St Denis")
Re: survey ("Tom St Denis")
Re: survey (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY)
Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC? ("Julian Morrison")
Re: Help with RSA PKCS1 v1.5 encryption process in JAVA language source code
("Jeffrey Walton")
Re: survey (Paul Rubin)
Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC? ("Tom St Denis")
Re: survey ("Tom St Denis")
Re: survey ("Paul Pires")
Re: survey ("Tom St Denis")
Re: Apology to Cloakware (open letter) (wtshaw)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Julian Morrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC?
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 00:11:27 +0100
"SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> However your method will take more bandwidth if thats a problem.
Not so - I'd have a used:waste ratio of 12:4 not 1:1 if I have to move a
128 bit count block with every crypted block (to allow out-of-sequence
decode), although that could improve I suppose by allowing the count
length to vary and prepending a count-length byte.
--
I like e-gold. Digital currency based 100% in real physical gold.
This link ( http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=281798 ) takes you to
their site and shows me as the introducer if you open an account.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY)
Subject: Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC?
Date: 22 May 2001 23:06:01 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Julian Morrison) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>"SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure what your driving at. Don't you care about the
>> block order. IF you send 1 2 3 4 5 6 packets are you happy with 1 2 4 3
>> 6 packets getting through.
>
>My approach in this case would be in "unreliable stream" mode to deliver 1
>2 4 6 (ie: the outdated 3 is dropped, as would 5 be if it then arrived),
>or just all of them as and when they arrive, in "unreliable datagram"
>mode.
>
>> Do you need to know which packet is which.
>
>Yes for "unreliable stream" mode.
>
>> Do you only have packets that
>> are 12 bytes of data independent of the other packets 12 bytes of data.
>
>In either of the two modes described above, that's the app's problem, not
>the protocol's.
>
>> If that the case then you approach is ok. If not state what you need
>> more clearly
>
>Ok, see above.
>
I think your approach is solid. CTR mode would not be very good
since if packets dropped or out of order. You can't tell untill
you tired to decrypt the block. In which case you may be using the
wrong CTR value. If it happens to decrypt to something reasonable
then you might use bad data.
David A. Scott
--
SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE "OLD VERSIOM"
http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong/scott19u.zip
My website http://members.nbci.com/ecil/index.htm
My crypto code http://radiusnet.net/crypto/archive/scott/
MY Compression Page http://members.nbci.com/ecil/compress.htm
**NOTE FOR EMAIL drop the roman "five" ***
Disclaimer:I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be drugged or
something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you!
------------------------------
From: Paul Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: 22 May 2001 16:11:14 -0700
"Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Oh I know it's because I am a kid and you don't have the time... gah...
>
> At least my paper includes some analysis... the paper isn't done though. My
> goal is to break the sucker not replace AES. I've broken 5 out of the eight
> rounds... I can't seem to get any further. My attacks are not very
> sophisticated though...
It's much more interesting if you break other people's ciphers, not your own.
------------------------------
From: "Paul Pires" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "computationally impossible" and cryptographic hashs
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:09:34 -0700
David Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9eegk6$nqg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Paul Pires wrote:
> >David Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Paul Pires wrote:
> >> >I notice you said "behave like randomly-chosen functions" and
> >> >not "behave like a function that produces random output"
> >>
> >> The difference is that (for a randomly-chosen function)
> >> if you feed the same input in twice, you'll definitely get
> >> the same output both times.
> >
> >Ah... I get it, I think. Randomly chosen function = Pseudo random
> >function (deterministic), Random function = indeterministic? Isn't
> >a true random function an abstraction? I can't think of an example
> >where the function could be responsible for randomness. Maybe the
> >input that the function processes but not the function itself, right?
>
> Hold on. I think you are confusing yourself here. :-)
>
> A mathematical function has the property that if you give it the
> same input twice, you'll get the same output. That's part of the
> definition.
>
> A randomly-chosen (or pseudorandomly-chosen) function is just a
> function, so it has the same property.
>
> The phrase "behaves like a function that produces random output"
> is meaningless, because if it produces random output, it might produce
> different outputs on the same inputs, which means that it is not a
> function after all.
Thanks, I believe I get what you and everyone else is saying.
It seemed an interesting usage of words and I always like to
check my assumptions. I'm surprised we got in and out of
this without a Jihad developing on the nature of randomness.
That was not where I was going with it. It is just good to make
sure you know the jargon when your eavesdropping :-)
Thanks.
Paul
------------------------------
From: "Julian Morrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC?
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 00:17:03 +0100
"SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think your approach is solid. CTR mode would not be very good
> since if packets dropped or out of order. You can't tell untill you
> tired to decrypt the block. In which case you may be using the wrong CTR
> value. If it happens to decrypt to something reasonable then you might
> use bad data.
If I was going to use CTR, I'd ship the count along with each chunk.
Probably as described in my other post, a count-length byte followed by
the count with zero-bytes to the left truncated.
--
I like e-gold. Digital currency based 100% in real physical gold.
This link ( http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=281798 ) takes you to
their site and shows me as the introducer if you open an account.
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:17:14 GMT
"Paul Rubin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Oh I know it's because I am a kid and you don't have the time... gah...
> >
> > At least my paper includes some analysis... the paper isn't done though.
My
> > goal is to break the sucker not replace AES. I've broken 5 out of the
eight
> > rounds... I can't seem to get any further. My attacks are not very
> > sophisticated though...
>
> It's much more interesting if you break other people's ciphers, not your
own.
I academically broke a slight variant of Noekeon... does that count?
Tom
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC?
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:18:05 GMT
"Julian Morrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > However your method will take more bandwidth if thats a problem.
>
> Not so - I'd have a used:waste ratio of 12:4 not 1:1 if I have to move a
> 128 bit count block with every crypted block (to allow out-of-sequence
> decode), although that could improve I suppose by allowing the count
> length to vary and prepending a count-length byte.
Are you purposely ignoring a perfectly valid solution?
CTR provides random access to the plaintext and DOESNT WASTE SPACE.
Geez... want me to spoon feed you this?
Tom
------------------------------
From: "Paul Pires" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:18:01 -0700
Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Q1BO6.7981$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Surendra Rana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I haven't been on to this newsgroup until today, when I am looking for an
> urgent
> > help with my RSA PKCS1 (rfc 2313) encryption process.
> > But I have found your help, answers, ideas very informative and
> interesting.
> > keep it up, your good work for this group.
>
> Thanks. I think I should work more on my "Tack" (is that how you spell it?)
> than my Analysis skills.. heheheh
I'm gonna save you from John Myre.
No, You don't Tack well at all but you're hell on wheels runnin
down-wind. Need to work on the Tact also. For some reason,
I find it insightfull that you don't know how spell the word. It's
a neat one to look up.
Paul
>
> BTW If you wnt info on PKCS goto RSAs website!
>
> Tom
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:22:00 GMT
"Joseph Ashwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:etTpvCx4AHA.139@cpmsnbbsa07...
>
> "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:a4BO6.7983$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Comments don't always have to be "here is a detailed
> > dissertation of your paper" Just "neat keep it up" or "I don't like it"
> or
> > "thank god for recycling" would be nice. Just short comments if
possible.
>
> I have read much of what you have written, along with the writings of
dozens
> of other people, at a rate of 700+ pages a week. What I have found is that
> your writings tend towards a brute-forcish style of establishing security.
> Instead of trying to find S-boxes that can be expressed extremely easily,
> you pound your way through the entire space finding a set that will work
for
> what you want. Instead of giving a proof against differential
cryptanalysis
> that can be applied to a broad range of possible ciphers you find a way to
> establish that your ciphers are probably immune. Continue similarly. Also
> while your designs are fundamentally solid they tend to lack an
explorative
> nature. You need to change your target a bit. Instead of just trying to
make
> a secure cipher, try to make one that has something interesting about it,
> create a new type of primitive structure (e.g. Wide Trail), or a
particular
> method of applying it (example RC6 is a feistel but expresses it
> differently). Explore the boundaries, we know that the middle of the
sandbox
> offers some good secure areas, but it's crowded, find something that can
> distinguish your designs from the designs of others. Perhaps you should
look
> into a design that requires a large number of very fast rounds to be
secure,
> or look into a different method of constructing S-boxes, a different
> combinor for feistel structures. Something distinctive, something that
isn't
> just another cipher, experiment, don't just reiterate.
Hmm I agree my ciphers tend towards the middle. My TC15 is an example of a
WideTrail bitsliced cipher of which there are only a few. Of which however
mine is the fastest and has a rather trivial description. I think TC15 is
distinguished from something like Serpent or Noekeon in it's throughput.
For example the speed of Serpent on a pentium (II I think ...) is 900 cycles
per block, but my cipher is 240 cycles per block. etc..
I can't figure out new attacks on my ciphers other than lame ones (i.e std
differential) because I really lack the requisit math knowledge. For
example, it's not that I wouldn't understand an attack on my cipher (or any
other really) it's that I can't figure out how to look for it. I imagine a
truncated diff will break TC15 due to the directed avalanche and SAC bias
over four rounds. I don't know how to look for such differentials though...
> Think about it, who in cryptography has made a name for themselves by just
> doing what everyone else has already done. We have names like Feistel, who
> basically developed a new structure for symmetric ciphers, Rivest who
> continually experiments with new and different ideas, Daemen who also
> created a new structure, Schneier who experimented with key-based s-boxes,
> etc. But no one will even given your work a second glance unless you find
> something new and interesting for people to experiment with. This is true
of
> all fields, in physics we remember Einstein, Newton, etc for their
enormous
> donations. In art we remember Da Vinci, Dali, etc. Everywhere (unless you
> look at Bill Gates) you will see that the only people that get any
attention
> are innovators.
You make some very valid points. I think I will try more cryptanalysis
first...
> Joe
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:22:48 GMT
"Paul Pires" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:4uCO6.12012$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Q1BO6.7981$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Surendra Rana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > I haven't been on to this newsgroup until today, when I am looking for
an
> > urgent
> > > help with my RSA PKCS1 (rfc 2313) encryption process.
> > > But I have found your help, answers, ideas very informative and
> > interesting.
> > > keep it up, your good work for this group.
> >
> > Thanks. I think I should work more on my "Tack" (is that how you spell
it?)
> > than my Analysis skills.. heheheh
>
> I'm gonna save you from John Myre.
>
> No, You don't Tack well at all but you're hell on wheels runnin
> down-wind. Need to work on the Tact also. For some reason,
> I find it insightfull that you don't know how spell the word. It's
> a neat one to look up.
Sorry I don't use the word in common day speak. And english n'est pas mon
forte.
Tom
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY)
Subject: Re: survey
Date: 22 May 2001 23:14:29 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Rubin) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>"Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Oh I know it's because I am a kid and you don't have the time...
>> gah...
>>
>> At least my paper includes some analysis... the paper isn't done
>> though. My goal is to break the sucker not replace AES. I've broken
>> 5 out of the eight rounds... I can't seem to get any further. My
>> attacks are not very sophisticated though...
>
>It's much more interesting if you break other people's ciphers, not your
>own.
If he tried to break someone elses cipher he would have to learn
how it works. I don't think Tommy has that kind of paitence.
David A. Scott
--
SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE "OLD VERSIOM"
http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong/scott19u.zip
My website http://members.nbci.com/ecil/index.htm
My crypto code http://radiusnet.net/crypto/archive/scott/
MY Compression Page http://members.nbci.com/ecil/compress.htm
**NOTE FOR EMAIL drop the roman "five" ***
Disclaimer:I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be drugged or
something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you!
------------------------------
From: "Julian Morrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC?
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 00:27:19 +0100
"Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Julian Morrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> "SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > However your method will take more bandwidth if thats a problem.
>>
>> Not so - I'd have a used:waste ratio of 12:4 not 1:1 if I have to move
>> a 128 bit count block with every crypted block (to allow
>> out-of-sequence decode), although that could improve I suppose by
>> allowing the count length to vary and prepending a count-length byte.
>
> Are you purposely ignoring a perfectly valid solution?
Ignoring hell, I'm listening and weighing up, plus suggesting oopses you
might have missed because of specific assumptions of my system.
> CTR provides random access to the plaintext and DOESNT WASTE SPACE.
This is what I'm saying: I can't just *assume* a count like I could in
TCP; were that the case I could do as you suggest, just ship the data
after XOR, zero wastage. My problem is that chunks may be permanently
dropped or arrive out of order - perhaps *very* out of order such that a
mere incrementing search for the counter would be annoyingly slow. So I
must ship the count *with every block*, such that each one can be
decrypted in short order as soon as recieved.
--
I like e-gold. Digital currency based 100% in real physical gold.
This link ( http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=281798 ) takes you to
their site and shows me as the introducer if you open an account.
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Jeffrey Walton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Jeffrey Walton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help with RSA PKCS1 v1.5 encryption process in JAVA language source code
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:30:24 -0400
There's a Java link here fro RSA:
http://www.cs.umbc.edu/~stephens/crypto/CIPHERS/rsatools.html
The cipher was published at:
http://www.cs.umbc.edu/~stephens/crypto/CIPHERS/cipher05e.html
It includes cipher text, e, and n. You have to factor n to calculate
p-1 and q-1 and plug into the program. The answer is a poem or song.
Here's another Java cracker, but its for El Gamal:
http://www.cs.umbc.edu/~stephens/crypto/CIPHERS/shankstools.html
And the cipher is located at:
http://www.cs.umbc.edu/~stephens/crypto/CIPHERS/cipher06e.html
It includes cipher text, p, alpha, and beta. This program solves the
discrete log problem for you. The answer is an excerpt from a book.
Both ciphers are 'easy'. That is, factoring or solving DLP takes under
about 5 minutes. They are clearly not proper moduli.
"Sam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: As a part of my study :
: RSA encryption in Java programming language
: I have generated p,q,n and now wants to perform encryption/decryption
: process using RSA PKCS1 v1.5. rfc 2313
: n is in the range of 1024 to 2048 or may be more.
: Can somebody help me with java source code for octet encryption block
: string
: EB = 00 || BT || PS || 00 || D
:
: BT block type = 01 for private and 02 for public
: PS padding string = (for BT=01) = FF
: = (for BT=02) = pseudorandomly gemnerated
: octet
: * isn't octet usually represented in 4 digits say for char 'a' =
0141,
: what does this FF then means
: PS = k - 3 - ||D|| D is plain text in octets, k is octet length of
: modulus.
: EB = length k
:
: *Is it must to go for octet type string or messege D can be just
: converted to integer value and then exponetially computed.
:
: octet string to int conversion
: k
: x = Sum 2^(8(k-i)) EBi
: i=1
:
: * will x be just one big integer or it shall be an array of elements
: representing the octal value equivalent integer value as per ASCII
table
: .
:
: RSA computation y = x^c mod n c= e fpr public, = d for private
:
: so value of y should be just a very big integer or y will be again an
: array of
:
: * How it may effect in transmitting time/computing efficiency when
: messege D is also very big say 60 octets and n, d, e are also very
big.
:
: Have somebody implemented RSA encryption/decryption in such manner
using
: JAVA programming language. I would like to see the actual algorithm
and
: source code.
:
: Also if somebody have implented using Garner's algorithm in JAVA
: language.
:
: I would really appreciate any kind of help with source code.
: Thanks in advance.
:
: Sam
:
------------------------------
From: Paul Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: 22 May 2001 16:31:01 -0700
"Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > It's much more interesting if you break other people's ciphers, not your
> own.
>
> I academically broke a slight variant of Noekeon... does that count?
Yes.
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ECB plus padding instead of CBC?
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:36:26 GMT
"Julian Morrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Julian Morrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> "SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > However your method will take more bandwidth if thats a problem.
> >>
> >> Not so - I'd have a used:waste ratio of 12:4 not 1:1 if I have to move
> >> a 128 bit count block with every crypted block (to allow
> >> out-of-sequence decode), although that could improve I suppose by
> >> allowing the count length to vary and prepending a count-length byte.
> >
> > Are you purposely ignoring a perfectly valid solution?
>
> Ignoring hell, I'm listening and weighing up, plus suggesting oopses you
> might have missed because of specific assumptions of my system.
>
> > CTR provides random access to the plaintext and DOESNT WASTE SPACE.
>
> This is what I'm saying: I can't just *assume* a count like I could in
> TCP; were that the case I could do as you suggest, just ship the data
> after XOR, zero wastage. My problem is that chunks may be permanently
> dropped or arrive out of order - perhaps *very* out of order such that a
> mere incrementing search for the counter would be annoyingly slow. So I
> must ship the count *with every block*, such that each one can be
> decrypted in short order as soon as recieved.
I don't see that as a problem. The binary counter will most likely only be
32-bits anyways... so four bytes overhead is little ... heck you could use
the # as the counter... (just mult that by the number of blocks per packet).
i.e if your packets are 64 blocks long (i.e 1024 bytes) then you mult the
packet # by 64 and use 64# thru 64# + 63 for the counter number for each
block.
Tom
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:34:41 GMT
"Paul Rubin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > It's much more interesting if you break other people's ciphers, not
your
> > own.
> >
> > I academically broke a slight variant of Noekeon... does that count?
>
> Yes.
Woohoo.
What comments do you have on *that* paper?
Tom
------------------------------
From: "Paul Pires" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:35:22 -0700
Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:cxCO6.8283$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Paul Pires" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:4uCO6.12012$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:Q1BO6.7981$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Surendra Rana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > I haven't been on to this newsgroup until today, when I am looking for
> an
> > > urgent
> > > > help with my RSA PKCS1 (rfc 2313) encryption process.
> > > > But I have found your help, answers, ideas very informative and
> > > interesting.
> > > > keep it up, your good work for this group.
> > >
> > > Thanks. I think I should work more on my "Tack" (is that how you spell
> it?)
> > > than my Analysis skills.. heheheh
> >
> > I'm gonna save you from John Myre.
> >
> > No, You don't Tack well at all but you're hell on wheels runnin
> > down-wind. Need to work on the Tact also. For some reason,
> > I find it insightfull that you don't know how spell the word. It's
> > a neat one to look up.
>
> Sorry I don't use the word in common day speak. And english n'est pas mon
> forte.
I'm sorry, my selection wasn't on the list was it?
OK.
a)
Tom, I don't comment on your stuff because I'm
Not very confident of what I do know and I'm pretty
sure that somewhere in there I'll make a goof. I'll risk
it to learn or better understand but I don't want to risk
that you will ritually mount me asswise in public if I
mis-step.
Sorry, I'm busy that day.
Paul
> Tom
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:48:01 GMT
"Paul Pires" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:jWCO6.9756$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:cxCO6.8283$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Paul Pires" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:4uCO6.12012$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:Q1BO6.7981$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > "Surendra Rana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > I haven't been on to this newsgroup until today, when I am looking
for
> > an
> > > > urgent
> > > > > help with my RSA PKCS1 (rfc 2313) encryption process.
> > > > > But I have found your help, answers, ideas very informative and
> > > > interesting.
> > > > > keep it up, your good work for this group.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks. I think I should work more on my "Tack" (is that how you
spell
> > it?)
> > > > than my Analysis skills.. heheheh
> > >
> > > I'm gonna save you from John Myre.
> > >
> > > No, You don't Tack well at all but you're hell on wheels runnin
> > > down-wind. Need to work on the Tact also. For some reason,
> > > I find it insightfull that you don't know how spell the word. It's
> > > a neat one to look up.
> >
> > Sorry I don't use the word in common day speak. And english n'est pas
mon
> > forte.
>
> I'm sorry, my selection wasn't on the list was it?
>
> OK.
>
> a)
>
> Tom, I don't comment on your stuff because I'm
> Not very confident of what I do know and I'm pretty
> sure that somewhere in there I'll make a goof. I'll risk
> it to learn or better understand but I don't want to risk
> that you will ritually mount me asswise in public if I
> mis-step.
>
> Sorry, I'm busy that day.
Fair enough.
Tom
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (wtshaw)
Subject: Re: Apology to Cloakware (open letter)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:32:59 -0600
In article <9ed7od$s74$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jeffrey Walton"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> | Suppose California quit sending food back East.
> | Would Gerorge be ready to barter with energy?
>
> I understand that when power companies were required to open
> back up (from scheduled maintenance downtime), the rolling
> black outs ceased. Is this correct?
The micro energy crisis is manufactured. Greed is rampant. Where there
is a service monopoly, regulation is mandatory so that the company makes a
small profit working within long-term contracts and the people are fairly
treated. The sure result of unfair treatment is unquestionably injustice
and perhaps bloodshed.
>
> BTW, what observations can you recall from you graduate
> studies? I'd love to hear of the results :) Did you
> publish?
>
> Jeff
>
One summary result: The generalities said of a population are not
descriptive of individual usage, some subjects being outside of classic
projections, but might be grouped according to other factors, most often
from subtile instructions and knowledge of what others have written.
--
Suppose California quit sending food back East.
Would Gerorge be ready to barter with energy?
------------------------------
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