significant amount of the credit card infrastructure costs is to cover advancing the money for payment and various kinds of unauthorized use of cards ... including by merchants (one of the reasons why it may be difficult to get merchants authorized) SSL doesn't take into account any of those issues. X9.59 (draft financial industry standard for all account based payments) can eliminate most forms of unauthorized use ... reducing infrastructure costs ... along with the possibility that it can somewhat reduce the difficulty of merchant be authorized for taking transactions since it eliminates some part of risk associated with authorizing merchants. however risk of merchant not fullfilling delivery service/product still remains ... but that is true for all forms of payment, the question for the consumer vis-a-vis credit-card mode is the advantage they gain from having their bank help in delivery-versus-payment conflicts (DVP has been issue in commerce for a long time and exaserbated in distance & non-face-to-face transactions). however, X9.59 is agnostic with respect for use as credit or debit payments (both types flow over ISO8583/ISO8583-like networks). "Rachel Willmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 09/23/99 03:27:22 PM To: "Arnold Reinhold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: "Robert Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Digital Bearer Settlement List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (bcc: Lynn Wheeler/CA/FDMS/FDC) Subject: Re: Why smartcards? (was IP: Smart Cards with Chips encouraged) Arnold Reinhold wrote: > And what is the value proposition for the consumer? SSL works swell. This is true iff : (1) the consumer is an adult who has a credit card (2) the consumer is content that the transaction is traceable through their credit card statement (3) the consumer is happy to pay the extra cost needed to cover the cost of the credit card hierarchy (which may be hidden in the ticket price but most certainly is there when the merchant calculates the selling price as he considers the cost to him of the credit card charges, potential chargebacks, insurance against chargebacks, etc) (4) the consumer wants to spend money with a merchant who is able to get a merchant account with a credit card processor (this is a real problem over here in the UK) or (5) the consumer wants to exchange money with a merchant rather than a friend In short, for the commerce model we have today (essentially the old mail order metaphor taken online), SSL and credit cards works just fine. For tomorrow's other commerce models, you need (and will have) digital cash smartcards, loyalty smartcards, identification smartcards (probably all on the same card). SSL doesn't provide a solution for everything. Rachel PS I'm considering starting a new mailing list to look at smartcards on the Internet - would anyone find this interesting/useful ? the list that this email is getting forwarded to seems rather large...