Hi, David!
First, thank you for the screenshots at http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=163989,
they were useful for me!:) As I see, there's some slight differences, as:
1. fonts - in Safari the highlited nav link at the right is not showing in bold (although it has the background arrow near it, as intended)
2. background at the top nav not showing in IE 5.2?
...but in general, all is OK.
<QUOTE_1> (Michel:) The link: http://www.petus-bulgaria.org (David:) These Mac captures look good. http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=163989 </QUOTE_!>
Second, thank you also for the proposed fix for the page shift! Maybe I will implement it, too, but usually I do not consider this as a *bug* - Firefox/Mozilla simply does not have a scrollbar at the right, when the content of the page is shorter than the browser window - Firefox works *as intended* by its creators - so why worry so much? ;-)
<QUOTE_2>
>(Michel:)
> I work on LCD monitor as well (17", 1280x1024),
(David:)
> Then this addition may help the page shift:
> html {min-height: 100%;margin-bottom: 1px;}
<QUOTE_2>
Third, about the font-sizes and *control*:
<QUOTE_3> (Michel:) my preferred browser is Firefox, but I tested also on Opera and IE 6 and I don't see any problems with the 'font-size: small' setting for the website?
(David:) > As long as *you* don't see a problem that's all that counts. Or is it?
(Michel:) Do you mean that this is very small size for Tahoma font?
(David:) I mean I don't like control freaks.
(Michel:) But, you can resize font sizes in any browser, including Opera (and even in IE, if you use relative font sizes as small, x-small, etc.)?
(David:) My user style sheet overrides your attempt to take over control my machine and what's best for *me.* </QUOTE_3>
Say, when you want to buy a book by an author you like, and you see it's printed in Georgia font, in 14pt size, on white paper, will you refuse to buy it and write the editors an angry letter, about font-preferences and control? Will you ask them to reprint it for you on yellow paper, in Times New Roman, 18pt?
No!
Internet is relatively new media. Authors of webpages possess some control over the layout/fonts/colors of the websites they produce - but users, *too*, possess a lot of control. They can override text-size, they can override colors, and they can even zoom in/out if they are Opera users (unlike Mozilla Firefox, in which you can only enlarge or make smaller the text size).
So, things are *a lot better* than in ordinary print world.
And this makes them a lot more interesting... and difficult, for designers, too!
When I set the font size for the pages of www.petus-bulgaria.org to
'font-size: small;'
I wanted the *majority* of the users of the website to see a relatively small font size, while still decently readable.
Tahoma and Verdana fonts are very well readable at 'small' size, for more than 90% of the web users, at most of the ususal desktop resolutions, including 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024.
What's more, I used 'small' as font setting, because this would permit also font-zoom for IE users on Windows.
So, if someone will come into this page and say to himself:
"Oh, so small font-sizes, I can't read it!"
he will be able with two click of the mouse to resize the font to suit himself, on Opera, IE (all versions), Netscape, Mozilla, Firefox, Safari and other browsers.
So where's the problem?
You put a website online, you specify some universal font (like Verdana, Tahoma, Times New Roman, Georgia, serif/sans-serif (at last), and you specify some font-size, which will be convenient for the majority of users; the others will be able to resize their font-size on their preferred browser without much harm:)
Is this *control*?
Maybe we should not specify also any colors on the page? Maybe we should not use images?
Sorry ofr the relatively long answer, but it looked like I am doing something wrong, when specifiyng a font-size in the CSS file - or was I?
Last, let's peak into Dan Cederholm's CSS style of today. What we see first?
Link: http://simplebits.com/css/master.css
<CSS file quote>
/* Title: SimpleBits master styles for screen media Author: Dan Cederholm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Updated: May 10 2005 */
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;
font-size: small;
text-align: center;
line-height: 1.5em;
color: #333;
background: #333 url(../img/bg_tile_l.gif) repeat top left;
}</CSS file quote>
Shall you leave Dan Cederholm's page immediately, after you see a *specified* font size in the CSS of simplebits.com? Is Dan trying to control you? Or any of the other webdesigners of today, who specify their own font-size in the stylsheets?...
Fouth, about the filter I used, you are 100% right - but as it is still useful for older Opera-users (although their percantage maybe neglectfully small), I do not see a big problem using it. Anyway, IE 5.0 will disappear soon, like nestacpe 4.7x did in the near past, and we will be able to remove these old hacks for thsi browser:)))
<QUOTE_4> (Michel:) Anyway, this filter you mentioned is for older versions of Opera and also a good thing to keep in the css, as IE 5.0/win needs ONE rule to ignore immediately AFTER the [ voice-family: "\"}\""; etc. ] filter (http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/37121) - smth. which (David:) Sounds like one of the alternative methods to "voice-family" might be a better solution? </QUOTE>
Have a nice day and also let me thank all of you on this list, who made tests using their browsers on the Mac platform, and relieved my consience from the uneasy thoughts "Oh, dear! And how your website is looking on the Mac? Did you test it? Nooo? So, how do you dare to sleep peacefully at night, you old scoundrel?" :-P
Greetings, --Michel
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