Sandra Davis wrote:
>[...]
>Yes, I remember the painful decision to step away from standards
>everywhere with this client. It's a kludge at this point. I agree.
>
>This layout is definitely killing some end user experiences.
>Client-insistence is strong in favor for the too dark, line reading
>width too long. Only IE 6 and above, if that. No screen readers...
>100% fluid width not consistent.
>
>No 800px, not even 1024! I butchered a full working standards-template
>to get it to this current beauty.
>
>
Hi Sandra,
Yes, client is king; but he should know the visitor has to be the
emperor - in case the goal is to attract reading visitors, and not to
have a beauty of a site under some special conditions... *)
>Yes IE jumps... Barely getting just FF & IE addressed. Statistics show
>50-50% these 2, with 1% other browser use likely generated from
>testing, 1% IE 5 not past 2001.
>
>Definitely at the "work somewhat" stage.
>
>I've now decided to do a major pruning and just go back to a
>only-for-FF story board with header-footer, otherwise empty
>body/wrapper. I'll post if success. Yes weird on the earlier <del>
>comment, it was a early AM hack for IE, it has to go anyway for even a
>minimal degrade to work at this point.
>
>
I was looking for the "FF-center-problem", and isolating the menu I
discovered:
* It is also IE which doesn't center the menu-items properly. That
becomes visible if the site is viewed in 1024x768px: then the
"Testimonials" item is on the 2nd line, but on the left side
instead of centered.
* Made a 1st testpage
<http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-keshav-a.htm>.
Result (viewed in 1280x1024px without a sidebar): in FF the menu
has a gap at the right side, the second line is leftsided.
Though in IE the menu is centered (and the second line leftsided too).
* Then made a 2nd testpage
<http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-keshav-b.htm>.
Only difference: replaced the <del>...</del> by a normal
<div>...</div> set.
Result: in FF exactly the same as the first testpage.
IE however is now acting in the same way as FF.
My conclusions:
* It is pure coincidence that IE is centering with the "del-hack".
And: the "del-hack" is only partially: at wrapping because of a
smaller window the second line is not centered.
* The centering of all containers around the menu-<ul> is perfect in
both testpages in all browsers (as in the original), just doing
what is expected according to the w3c rules.
* It must be the positioning of the list-items inside the menu-<ul>.
Indeed a "common css problem", and no direct relationship with any
validation. ;-)
So I think the centering problem can be solved, with for example the
Sons of Suckerfish as a good starting point.
Must be possible for FF and IE and others as well - with some special
arrangements for ... (guess who) IE. :-)
See testpage Centered Suckerfish
<http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-suckerfish-centered.htm>.
**)
It doesn't say everything, like Georg pointed, but ... it validates
(html and css).
Greetings,
francky
btw: Maybe there can be saved some download time, if you make a div
around the header and the menu together, and put 1 combined mountain
image in it as background.
*)
The website in this way is the opposite of his own philosophy:
"So, let go of the strategies to control and manipulate life and simply
let it be.
(...) Together we can play in the Dream of Unity that has been here all
long!"
Unity in terms of who?
Prescribing:
- I've to buy a monitor 1280x1024+ if I haven't,
- I've to set my resolution (or min. window size) on 1280x1024+ if I
haven't,
- I've to (install and) see the site in IE if it's not my default browser,
- I've to set the font size at "normal" to get a proper display, even if
I can't read the text then,
- I've to install the latest FLASH player if I haven't,
- I've to mouse over the whole screen to see of there are some hidden links,
- and so on ...
**)
I couldn't test IE7; IE6 on Win is o.k., like FF1.07 and Opera8.01.
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