-Caveat Lector-
I believe the problem is a misunderstanding of his beliefs. I don't believe he
supports
slavery, he simple reported the truth about what happened in history. Slavery still
exist
today and is not limited to black people. His debate is not about his views, but
about the
history. I think he is factual in his references.
I was raised in the old South in Claxton, Georgia 1941-1949 and I can tell you from
personal
experience that the old South I experienced respected everyone. There was no racial
tension
as today. Black people wanted to be with their kind and whites wanted the same. We
worked
together Black and White to plant and clear the crops since most of the able bodied
men were
still at war. Everyone helped everyone else. If uncle Joe or uncle John wanted to
leave a
box of food and supplies on a Black's front porch, it had to be done early in the
morning
before they woke up, cause if they saw him, they would chase him down and make him
take it
back. No body wanted charity.
My first real introduction to charity was when my Uncle John with bargain for 30
minutes
with a Black fellow who lived down the road to swap his carved stick figure for a
quart of
Uncle John's corn liquor. He threw the carving in the wood box. When I questioned
him as
to why he threw it away after trading for it he replied, " You don't think that man
would
take charity, do You?" Things have changed a lot since then.
The "hit the delete button" remark was un-necessary; hitting the delete button only
perpetuates ignorance. It is not an escape.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Jim Norman
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> What constitutes "baiting"? While I've subscribed to the list, I've read
> posts attacking Jews, minorities, and "liberals." Plus, all of the vile
> and scurrilous posts about the President and Hillary. In addition, I've
> read posts that have targeted the poor, welfare recipients, and Native
> Americans. Not to mention the many posts attacking feminists or women in
> general. Plus, there are the many strange posts defending slavery.
>
> I have responded to these many attacks in as courteous a manner as
> possible. Barb Witt, who does not share my views on many issues, has
> pointed out that I have tried to be fair and polite to those who I
> disagree with. I don't think I've "baited" anyone. If anything, I have
> been "baited" by the neofascists on the list from the outset with
> snide remarks and ad hominem attacks.
>
> I locked horns with Hawk...only to now be accused of being Hawk in
> disguise!!! Ha ha...go figure! Yes, there is a similarity between the
> two of us... And I do respect the man....even though I disagree with
> everything he believes. I've spent my entire life surrounded by people
> who think like he does....and I think I was making progress towards
> showing him that liberals and people of color also love their
> country...also love their kids...also believe in decency, integrity,
> respect for property...the same things he values....
>
> I'm not a white middle class American. I didn't go to an elitist
> school... My father was an alcoholic, parents divorced when I was
> twelve... I know what it's like to live on the streets and be
> hungry...how many of you can say the same? Have you ever worked at a
> factory? washed dishes to eat? worked in construction?
> ...struggled to survive? Old Hawk and I come from the same low
> strata..... We are the people who follow behind your parade with the
> shovels. I understand his sense of betrayal and rage. He's my brother..
> although I disagree with his views.
>
> So...if you dislike my posts...just hit the delete button.
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > May I second the motion. In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides and if
>one
> > goes, they should all go.
> > Jim norman
> >
> > William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
> >
> > > -Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > > Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
> > > I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
> > > All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
> > > this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
> > > spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
> > > I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
> > > in my opinion, that his posts..
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > William
> > >
> > > On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
> > >
> > > > -Caveat Lector-
> > > >
> > > > I think you missed my earlier post. I'm not against the idea of states
> > > > leaving the Union...per se.
> > > >
> > > > In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were confused
> > > > and complex. But I think on the issue of slavery there was no compromise.
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon your
> > > > point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particular discussion.
> > > > For example, if you were a white male southerner at the time who owned
> > > > slaves, you would be interested in protecting your "property," and you
> > > > would not be too enthusiastic about the Federal government's plan to
> > > > free your slaves. However, for the sake of argument, I was the slave
> > > > owner ...and you were MY slave. You might have a completely different
> > > > perspective on the issue of what exactly IS property and what ISN'T.
> > > >
> > > > If I decided to take your children from you and sell them to my neighbor,
> > > > you wouldn't be able to complain, because the law had defined you to be
> > > > chattel. Or, perhaps,if I decided to enjoy the sexual favors of your
> > > > wife.
> > > > Again, you would have nothing to say in the matter because I would be the
> > > > absolute lord and master over the Davis family. Your wife, your children,
> > > > your lives would be held in my tender hands. Now, being a thinking and
> > > > reasonable person, I just might make a reasonable assumption that YOU
> > > > would object to this state of affairs. In fact, it might not be a legal
> > > > or logical issue to you...it might be an emotional and intensely personal
> > > > issue to you, would you agree? Of course, I could trot out my Holy Book
> > > > and explain to your sorry ass that you are chattel...and I could explain
> > > > the Constitution to your untutored ears.....and explain the finer points
> > > > of the noble English Common Law tradition.... It would not surprise me
> > > > that you might be unimpressed with the wisdom of my philsophy. Perhaps,
> > > > you might even be emotional about it.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Wm
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Howard R. Davis III wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > -Caveat Lector-
> > > > >
> > > > > William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Caveat Lector-
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Davis and the other southern commanders had taken oaths as soldiers and as
> > > > > > politicians to serve and uphold the Constitution of the United States.
> > > > > > They were bound by that oath not to work against the best interests of the
> > > > > > nation.
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > > Yes, and they understood that the Constitution allowed states to seceed
> > > > > from the union. They had also taken an oath to their state govenments
> > > > > which governments preceeded the forming of the union. Lee, for instance,
> > > > > would have been working against the best interests of his country
> > > > > (Virginia) if he had taken command of the federal forces as had been
> > > > > offered.
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > By taking up arms against their country, they were committing an
> > > > > > act of treason.. Sorry if that offends some of you but that is a fact.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ****
> > > > > Why should it offend me? I had no ancestor in the war except perhaps in
> > > > > the federal army. I have lived in the south for many years, but people
> > > > > still say I don't have an accent. I don't even like football. I just
> > > > > have studied the history and have tried to understand the situation at
> > > > > the time on the basis of law. I don't believe that you have. You are
> > > > > just argueing from an emotional basis and not on any basis of law. My
> > > > > understanding of law has lead me to believe that the southern states had
> > > > > the legal right to leave the union and that they did so lawfully. As I
> > > > > stated, the Supreme Court of the time was probably in agreement with
> > > > > this position. It was Lincoln and others in the northern states who
> > > > > ignored their oathes to the Constitution. That is my opinion from
> > > > > studying the facts. If you have a rational arguement to disprove my
> > > > > opinion, I am open to being corrected, but what you have provided so far
> > > > > has not dealt with the issue in anything but a purely emotional manner.
> > > > >
> > > > > best wishes, Howard Davis
> > > > >
> > > > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > > > > ==========
> > > > > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
>propagandic
> > > > > screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> > > > > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
>outright
> > > > > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> > > > > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> > > > > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
>readers;
> > > > > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> > > > > nazi's need not apply.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > > > > ========================================================================
> > > > > Archives Available at:
> > > > > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> > > > >
> > > > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > > > > ========================================================================
> > > > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > > > > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > > > > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > Om
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > > > ==========
> > > > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> > > > screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> > > > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> > > > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> > > > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> > > > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> > > > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> > > > nazi's need not apply.
> > > >
> > > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > > > ========================================================================
> > > > Archives Available at:
> > > > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> > > >
> > > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > > > ========================================================================
> > > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > > > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > > > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Om
> > > >
> > >
> > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > > ==========
> > > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> > > screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> > > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> > > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> > > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> > > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> > > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> > > nazi's need not apply.
> > >
> > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > > ========================================================================
> > > Archives Available at:
> > > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> > >
> > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > > ========================================================================
> > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Om
> >
> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==========
> > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> > screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> > nazi's need not apply.
> >
> > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > ========================================================================
> > Archives Available at:
> > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> >
> > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > ========================================================================
> > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Om
> >
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==========
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ========================================================================
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ========================================================================
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
