-Caveat Lector-
from alt.conspiracy
-----
As always, Caveat Lector. The commentaries are interspaced by ==.
Om
K
-----
Date: Sun Jan 17 03:36:17 1999
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ("Mary Therise Gleason")
Subject: Robert Anton Wilson "The RICH Economy"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://freespace.virgin.net/sarah.peter.nelson/pages/rawilson.html
"People can spend only so much time fucking, smoking dope, and
watching TV; after a while they get bored ..."
The Rich Economy by Robert Anton Wilson from The Illuminati Papers
If there is one proposition which currently wins the assent of nearly
everybody, it is that we need more jobs. "A cure for unemployment" is
promised, or earnestly sought, by every Heavy Thinker from Jimmy
Carter to the Communist Party USA, from Ronald Reagan to the head of
the economics department at the local university, from the Birchers
to the New Left.
I would like to challenge that idea. I don't think there is, or ever
again can be, a cure for unemployment. I propose that unemployment is
not a disease, but the natural, healthy functioning of an advanced
technological society.
==
JCT: As Real Caouette, the Great Quebec Social Credit leader,
once explained:
"If you want jobs, I can give you jobs. Take out the bulldozer
and put in 50 men with shovels. If you want more jobs, take away their
shovels and give them spoons."
He used this to explain that it wasn't the toil that people
wanted but rather the paycheck that people wanted. That's why when
there's a National Dividend, a share of the robot paycheck, no one
will worry about being replaced by a robot when their dividend goes
up.
==
The inevitable direction of any technology, and of any rational
species such as Homo sap., is toward what Buckminster Fuller calls
ephemeralization, or doing-more-with-less. For instance, a modern
computer does more (handles more bits of information) with less
hardware than the proto-computers of the late '40's and '50's. One
worker with a modern teletype machine does more in an hour than a
thousand medieval monks painstakingly copying scrolls for a century.
Atomic fission does more with a cubic centimeter of matter than all
the engineers of the 19th Century could do with a million tons, and
fusion does even more.
Unemployment is not a disease; so it has no "cure."
==
JCT: When there are things to be done, involuntary unemployment
is a mental disease for which there is a cure.
==
This tendency toward ephemeralization or doing more-with-less is
based on two principal factors, viz:
1.The increment-of-association, a term coined by engineer C.H.
Douglas, a meaning simply that when we combine our efforts we can do
more than the sum of what each of us could do separately. Five people
acting synergetically together can lift a small modern car, but if
each of the five tries separately, the car will not budge. As society
evolved from tiny bands, to larger tribes, to federations of tribes,
to city-states, to nations, to multinational alliances, the
increment-of-association increased exponentially. A stone-age hunting
band could not build the Parthenon; a Renaissance city-state could
not put Neil Armstrong on the Moon. When the increment-of-association
increases, through larger social units, doing-more-with-less becomes
increasingly possible.
2.Knowledge itself is inherently self-augmenting. Every discovery
"suggests" further discoveries; every innovation provokes further
innovations. This can be seen concretely, in the records of the U.S.
Patent Office, where you will find more patents granted every year
than were granted the year before, in a rising curve that seems to be
headed toward infinity. If Inventor A can make a Whatsit out of 20
moving parts, Inventor B will come along and build a Whatsit out of
10 moving parts. If the technology of 1900 can get 100 ergs out of a
Whatchamacallum, the technology of 1950 can get 1,000 ergs. Again,
the tendency is always toward doing-more-with-less.
Unemployment is directly caused by this technological capacity to
do more-with-less. Thousands of monks were technologically unemployed
by Gutenberg. Thousands of blacksmiths were technologically
unemployed by Ford's Model T. Each device that does-more-with-less
makes human labor that much less necessary.
Aristotle said that slavery could only be abolished when machines
were built that could operate themselves. Working for wages, the
modern equivalent of slavery -- very accurately called "wage slavery"
by social critics -- is in the process of being abolished by just
such self-programming machines. In fact, Norbert Wiener, one of the
creators of cybernetics, foresaw this as early as 1947 and warned
that we would have massive unemployment once the computer revolution
really got moving.
It is arguable, and I for one would argue, that the only reason
Wiener's prediction has not totally been realized yet -- although we
do have ever-increasing unemployment -- is that big unions, the
corporations, and government have all tacitly agreed to slow down the
pace of cybernation, to drag their feet and run the economy with the
brakes on. This is because they all, still, regard unemployment as a
"disease" and cannot imagine a "cure" for the nearly total
unemployment that full cybernation will create.
Suppose, for a moment, we challenge this Calvinistic mind-set. Let us
regard wage-work -- as most people do, in fact, regard it -- as a
curse, a drag, a nuisance, a barrier that stands between us and what
we really want to do. In that case, your job is the disease, and
unemployment is the cure.
==
JCT: Let's call it leisure rather than unemployment since the
only difference between unemployment and leisure is that when
you're unemployed, you don't have enough money for a comfortable
existence and when you're in leisure, you do have enough life-support
tickets.
==
"But without working for wages we'll all starve to death!?!
Won't we?"
Not at all. Many farseeing social thinkers have suggested intelligent
and plausible plans for adapting to a society of rising unemployment.
Here are some examples.
1.The National Dividend. This was invented by engineer C. H.
Douglas and has been revived with some modifications by poet Ezra
Pound and designer Buckminster Fuller. The basic idea (although
Douglas, Pound, and Fuller differ on the details) is that every
citizen should be declared a shareholder in the nation, and should
receive dividends on the Gross National Product for the year.
==
JCT: Major Douglas was the founder of the Social Credit movement
and gave me my first inkling of the evil of banking system and its
controllers. It helps to think of the Dividend as a share of the robot
paychecks so that instead of a few people owning all the robots and
the others surviving on the taxes we get out of them, most robots are
owned by the state and everyone owns a share of the robot's
paychecks.
==
Estimates differ as to how much this would be for each citizen, but
at the current level of the GNP it is conservative to say that a
share would be worth several times as much, per year, as a welfare
recipient receives -- at least five times more.
==
JCT: When one considers that in Canada, just the debt service is
$10,000 per capita per year, it's easy to see how a family of five
could live a life of luxury when this is added to the average take-
home pay.
==
Critics complain that this would be inflationary. Supporters of the
National Dividend reply that it would only be inflationary if the
dividends distributed were more than the GNP; and they are proposing
only to issue dividends equal to the GNP.
==
JCT: Of course, they are correct that if new chips issued are
backed up by new collateral in the cage, there cannot be inflation.
Unfortunately, economists and most people who are exposed to media,
are conditioned to believe that any increase in chips would cause
inflation. To any gambler aware of how casino cashiers run their
cages, this is silly, but unfortunately, economists are never taught
the link between new money and new collateral and look at money all
alone which explains why they decry all new money as inflationary.
==
2.The Guaranteed Annual Income. This has been urged by economist
Robert Theobald and others. The government would simply establish an
income level above the poverty line and guarantee that no citizen
would receive less; if your wages fall below that level, or you have
no wages, the government makes up the difference. This plan would
definitely cost the government less than the present welfare system,
with all its bureaucratic red tape and redundancy: a point worth
considering for those conservatives who are always complaining about
the high cost of welfare. It would also spare the recipients the
humiliation, degradation and dehumanization built into the present
welfare system: a point for liberals to consider. A system that is
less expensive than welfare and also less debasing to the poor, it
seems to me, should not be objectionable to anybody but hardcore
sadists.
==
JCT: I personally don't like this because it is charity. I prefer
everyone have an interest-free credit line and the rest of their lives
in order to try to pay it back and only once they're dead would that
charity take place.
==
3.The Negative Income Tax. This was first devised by Nobel
economist Milton Friedman and is a less radical variation on the
above ideas. The Negative Income Tax would establish a minimum income
for every citizen; anyone whose income fell below that level would
receive the amount necessary to bring them up to that standard.
Friedman, who is sometimes called a conservative but prefers to title
himself a libertarian, points out that this would cost "the
government" (i.e. the taxpayers) less than the present welfare
system, like Theobald's Guaranteed Annual Income. It would also
dispense with the last tinge of humiliation associated with
government "charity," since when you cashed a check from IRS nobody
(not even your banker) would know if it was supplementary income due
to poverty or a refund due to overpayment of last year's taxes.
==
JCT: Yes, but you would still know that you were a recipient of
charity. I'd rather just owe knowing that I might win a lottery some
day before I die and be able to settle up and end up a winner with a
positive number in my account when I die. Besides, once the National
Dividend starts being added to everyone's account, there won't be many
people who won't have been able to settle up their pre-dividend debts.
==
4.The RICH Economy. This was devised by inventor L. Wayne Benner
(co-author with Timothy Leary of Terra II) in collaboration with the
present author. It's a four-stage program to retool society for the
cybernetic and space-age future we are rapidly entering. RICH means
Rising Income through Cybernetic Homeostasis.
Stage I is to recognize that cybernation and massive unemployment
are inevitable and to encourage them. This can be done by offering a
$100,000 reward to any worker who can design a machine that will
replace him or her, and all others doing the same work. In other
words, instead of being dragged into the cybernetic age kicking and
screaming, we should charge ahead bravely, regarding the Toilless
Society as the Utopian goal humanity has always sought.
==
JCT: Sure, as long as all the others who are replaced by the
robots benefit by getting a share of more money too.
==
Stage II is to establish either the Negative Income Tax or the
Guaranteed Annual Income, so that the massive unemployment caused by
Stage I will not throw hordes of people into the degradation of the
present welfare system.
==
JCT: Better the LETS interest-free credit line with which the
newly unemployed may either purchase new education and life-support
while they're in their studies or may purchase new capital tools in
order to get into a business that society has deemed desirable enough
to want to pay for.
==
Stage III is to gradually, experimentally, raise the Guaranteed
Annual Income to the level of the National Dividend suggested by
Douglas, Bucky Fuller, and Ezra Pound, which would give every citizen
the approximate living standard of the comfortable middle class.
==
JCT: This can still be done whether people have been surviving
and living on interest-free credit or whether on the negative income
tax or guaranteed annual income.
==
The reason for doing this gradually is to pacify those conservative
economists who claim that the National Dividend is "inflationary" or
would be practically wrecking the banking business by lowering the
interest rate to near-zero.
==
JCT: Doing something to pacify people who have mistaken
impressions of how inflation works is not a good enough excuse. Since
the National Dividend will not cause inflation, it should be
introduced as fast as new robot collateral is created and no slower to
satisfy the slower intellects in our society.
==
It is our claim that this would not happen as long as the total
dividends distributed to the populace equaled the Gross National
Product. But since this is a revolutionary and controversial idea,
it would be prudent, we allow, to approach it in slow steps, raising
the minimum income perhaps 5 per cent per year for the first ten
years. And, after the massive cybernation caused by Stage I has
produced a glut of consumer goods, experimentally raise it further
and faster toward the level of a true National Dividend.
==
JCT: And again, I want as much free dividend as the system can
deliver without causing inflation. I don't want less money just to
satisfy idiots who can't see that we're all sharing in increased robot
production but who want it spread out slowly to satisfy an archaic and
anachronistic belief that inflation is an increase in the money supply
when empirical evidence has shown that the inflation our high-
production world has been suffering has been shift B inflation, the
decrease in value for the existing purchasing power.
==
Stage IV is a massive investment in adult education, for two
reasons.
1. People can spend only so much time fucking, smoking dope, and
watching TV; after a while they get bored. This is the main
psychological objection to the workless society, and the answer to it
is to educate people for functions more cerebral than fucking,
smoking dope, watching TV, or the idiot jobs most are currently
toiling at.
==
JCT: The great book "The Grasshopper" taught me years ago that
mankind will always play games, whether those games pay off in
financial remuneration or only in physical or intellectual
satisfaction.
==
e 2.There are vast challenges and opportunities confronting us in
the next three or four decades, of which the most notable are those
highlighted in Tim Leary's SMI2LE slogan -- Space Migration,
Intelligence Increase, Life Extension.
==
JCT: I think the vast opportunities will arise in the next two
years. On the day the world banking system announces that interest-
free accounts are available, the inevitable spending spree feeding the
inevitable industrial surge will take off exponentially until we hit
maximum clean industrial production.
==
Humanity is about to enter an entirely new evolutionary relationship
to space, time, and consciousness. We will no longer be limited to
one planet, to a brief, less-than-a-century lifespan, and to the
stereotyped and robotic mental processes by which most people
currently govern their lives.
==
JCT: That's for sure. The paradigm shift of going from a financial
mort-gage "death-gamble" war where not all can survive and where the
losers are foreclosed into deadly poverty to a financial LETS game
where the winners win big and the losers win small will be considered
the greatest revolution in the history of mankind. Going from a
thousands-year-old system of debt slavery to a brand new system of
financial liberation will addle the brains of most who have been
conditioned by the present system to believe that there must always be
greed and poverty. Most cannot even conceive of the upcoming world of
love and abundance though it shouldn't take long for everyone to get
used to it once the global banks offer LETS accounts in the new
millennium.
===
Everybody deserves the chance, if they want it, to participate in the
evolutionary leap to what Leary calls "more space, more time, and
more intelligence to enjoy space and time."
==
JCT: The day everyone gets their credit line for life-support
will be the day such Heaven on Eden will have arrived. I'm betting
before the year 2001. Tom Kennedy says 2010.
==
Delve the GALACTIC ARCHIVES for an amusing tale from the future:
"President Hubbard's first step in establishing the RICH Economy was
to offer a prize of $50,000 per year to any worker who could design a
machine that would replace him or her."
What I am proposing, in brief, is that the Work Ethic (find a Master
to employ you for wages, or live in squalid poverty) is obsolete. A
Work Esthetic will have to arise to replace this old Stone Age
syndrome of the slave, the peasant, the serf, the prole, the
wage-worker -- the human labor-machine who is not fully a person but,
as Marx said, " a tool, an automaton." Delivered from the role of
things and robots, people will learn to become fully developed
persons, in the sense of the Human Potential movement. They will not
seek work out of economic necessity, but out of psychological
necessity -- as an outlet for their creative potential.
==
JCT: And when there's no work to be done, they'll play games.
Then again, the more games, the more need for referees, officials,
photographers, reporters, so there will always be more and more work
to be done though it will be shared out efficiently with rewards
commensurate with both the effort put in and the skill needed.
==
It's the reason the sewer cleaner will be paid so much more than
the bus driver, maybe even the doctor.
Though a bus driver may earn an Hour per hour and a cardiac
surgeon may be able to command 10 Hours per hour to use his rare
skills in an operation, when the sewer plugs up, an announcement will
go up on the municipal government LETS bulletin work board offering 5
Hours per hour for shovelling the shit out of the blocked sewer. If no
one accepts, they'll up it to 10 Hours per hour. If no one accepts,
they'll offer 20 Hours per hour. If no one accepts, they'll offer 30
Hours per hour and so on until someone finally decides that 50 Hours
worth of spending power is worth spending an hour in the sewer
shovelling the waste and he sends in his bid accepting that chore.
Capitalism at its best via the electronic agora. So whereas in
today's world where those with the dirtiest jobs earn the least and
where those with the parasitic and valueless jobs like financial
owners receive the most, in the world of the future, earnings will be
based on skill required and unpleasantness experienced.
("Creative potential" is not a panchreston. It refers to the inborn
drive to play, to tinker, to explore, and to experiment, shown by
every child before his or her mental processes are stunted by
authoritarian education and operant-conditioned wage-robotry.)
==
JCT: Absolutely, though many can't conceive of life without a
slavemaster lashing them to their toil. For those who ask "What will
we do when there's no work?," it won't take long for them to realize
that they'll do the same things rich people with lots of money do
today such as arts, sports and play.
==
As Bucky Fuller says, the first thought of people, once they are
delivered from wage slavery, will be, "What was it that I was so
interested in as a youth, before I was told I had to earn a living?"
The answer to that question, coming from millions and then billions
of persons liberated from mechanical toil, will make the Renaissance
look like a high school science fair or a Greenwich Village art show.
==
JCT: Yes, delivery from debt and wage slavery will be the
greatest Renaissance in the history of mankind.
==
Extracts from The Illuminati Papers, Robert Anton Wilson, 1980,
Ronin Publishing, Inc., P.O. Box 1035, Berkeley, CA94701.
The Leisure Party web site was created by Sarah Nelson at:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://www.leisureparty.org/sarah.peter.nelson
==
JCT: Nice stuff. I don't think I had any major disagreements
other than preferring interest-free credit to charity.
==
Date: Mon Jan 18 23:10:25 1999
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ("Mary Therise Gleason")
Subject: Re: Robert Anton Wilson "The RICH Economy"
Do we need more jobs??? Or do citizens need a decent income so they
can handle today's expenses?
Or better still, Technocracy's energy accounting system of
ECO*nomics to better account the QUANTITY being mass-produced to
balance it with the current populations -- instead of pricing people
by the clock as if they are merely commodities like apples and bread.
JQSCOTT: http://www.technocracy.org
===
JCT: Technocracy is another group who have their banking systems
engineering right. Their energy certificates operate just like a LETS
which accepts not only manpower energy, labor, but also other forms of
energy, goods etc.
==
They act as if "unemployment" is like an illness to be 'cured.' After
65 years of more and more automation, wouldn't we anticipate that
humans would no longer have to "work" hard as they did in the farming
and factory families of the 19th century -- prior to KWTS ?
And in days of monks tediously copying scrolls in chilly dank rooms,
just think how often they copied something that may or may not have
been true! Today, if something is false it gets copies multiple times
before someone corrects it -- but at a much faster rate than
yestercentury. In support of this posting:
"When intelligence and energy meet --
there is great manifestation of good."
And when we as an enlightened humanity ABOLISH DOLLARSIGNS AND DEBT,
and employ 20th century "energy" instead to do the "work" once
accomplished by muscle, then we will have reached the evolutionary
level where "Information is our medium of exchange!"
==
JCT: Of course, money is nothing but a promise to pay energy and
an energy certificate is a perfect monetary instrument.
==
Thus, as much less labor is needed in 1999 than in 1939 - why does it
require more hours on the job just to get a paycheck??? And require
both adults of a household to commute two hours a day without pay.
==
JCT: Why could my grandfather afford to own a home and raise 6
kids and today, that is out of reach of most people?
==
A Jan 6 editorial in the Albany Democrat herald asks:
"Do both adults in a household now HAVE to work because wages have
lagged, or have wages fallen mainly because the work force doubled in
the last 30 years when both adults went to work? [we might mention to
pay the rent or the mortgage and the taxes so Congress could pay
itself $65 /hr.]
==
JCT: And of course, the reason is that we've been conned into
wanting more money for our food instead of more food for our money.
I've explained often enough how interest-free currency buys more and
more over time which is preferable to getting money in interest which
buys you less and less over time. Getting people to demand more and
more money for their food when they could be getting more and more
food for their money is the scam.
==
"If it's the latter, it would be tempting -- though impractical and
futile, of course -- to tackle the problem by passing a law:
"One job per household."
==
JCT: We often hear this idiotic idea of sharing work being spread
by people who don't realize that what they're sharing is not
insufficient work to be done but insufficient money to be paid for it.
==
And please note that today it's always "household income," quoted.
And the statement "working for wages" is not complete without working
for taxes and working for rents.
Wiener's forecast as well as Technocracy's didn't happen and give us
FEWER hours of work -- not because the technology wasn't available,
but because the PRICE/PROFIT/DEBT SYSTEM was perpetuated on IOU's.
Robert Theobald, of course, proposes that we should have full
unemployment and Bucky Fuller proposed that 70% of the commuters
clogging roadways and going to jobs that produce zero life support,
could properly be kept at home, relieve the traffic congestion, and
be put on fellowships and still save millions.
==
JCT: I've often said this myself. When people object that LETS
would be putting almost all bankers, insurance company agents, welfare
employees out of work, I'd point out that if we paid them the
same money but let them stay home, we'd at least be saving on the gas
they would have spent going to do work that is no longer necessary.
I'd guess that only a small fraction of our workforce actually do
useful work and if those who do non-useful work could diverted into
useful work, we'd really have abundance in paradise.
==
Theobald spoke of 'right livelihood.' and 85% of the workers hate
their jobs. In a Technate of Tomorrow they would only be required to
work four hours a day / four days a week for a new sixteen hour
workweek and still have time to be home to raise their children and
prevent crime in the future by spending more quality time with their
family instead of paying someone else a minimal wage to care for
their most prized jewels.
==
JCT: Or they could choose to live on their Dividend and let those
who enjoy the work do more than 16 hours per week.
==
And in the Technate, they wouldn't have to hate their job, but would
work enjoyable in occupations they are well-qualified for...
==
JCT: And if it was not enjoyable, they'd be getting a real
premium on their salaries.
==
I have not studied the national Dividend of C. H. Douglas but had
another gentleman with an easel and charts come visit in my residence
on a Sunday to promote his solution -- which was still monetary.
As well as many others who want to put a PRICE on what a human
produces or is worth in a lifetime, and then pro rate it -- still a
type of pricing.
Whereas MEASUREMENT of the quantity produced by automation based on
KWTS or other energy [non human muscle or brain] in an advanced
post-industrial era of 1999 where we're now PRODUCING MORE than our
population can consume -- we already have the production and need
only a better medium of distribution that is more equitable for all
citizens without putting a price on their head. And what we are
producing must be less detrimental to the Planet we all live on.
Re a dividend as a shareholder amount being FIVE TIMES what a welfare
recipient receives, after jumping through many levels of
applications, we might mention that our Congress has always paid
itself TEN TIMES the average wage worker.
==
JCT: Still, the Dividend means that it is a share in the
production which you are due without having to work for it. The other
schemes are forms of charity. The Social Credit Dividend is clearly
the best.
==
Technocracy's energy accounting system works from the opposite end of
the spectrum -- from the quantity produced to match the population as
a whole. And stop evaluating each human in terms of worth of price.
By adopting a Technocracy accounting system based on the resources
instead of prices, it has long been estimated we could be enjoying
for 65 years the equivalent of what $100 a day would buy us each in
consumables. People get wrapped up in wanting to spend the $6,000 a
month worth of products on all sorts of things for themselves, versus
considering who and what has made the economy as a WHOLE and how we
would each benefit from enjoying our share instead of an uneven
apportionment via the wage gauge which rations all this abundance so
that most people want to immediately break the tenth commandment and
go into DEBT and pay extra in interest just to satisfy what their
eyes see in today's flamboyant advertising medium.
==
JCT: Unfortunately, most people in debt aren't there for
frivolous spending but mainly for basic life support spending.
===
There is more to the posting, yet mostly to look at all the various
proposals which would hover around the PRICED ECONOMY. So, I'll close
here for now, and allow the list to "grok" this much, as Heinlein
worded it.
For getting into negative Income Tax and all the rest is still
monetary, and we have outproduced any monetary system on the planet,
as Fuller pointed out at the time we put man on the Moon.
So even "returning to a gold standard is impracticable."
Regards to all,
JQSCOTT http://www.technocracy.org
"The toilless economy as the utopian goal humanity has always
sought..." could be enjoyed by all tomorrow as soon as we the
citizens unify our efforts to simply ABOLISH THE MONEY/DEBT SYSTEM
and adopt the energy accounting system of ECO*nomy that an energetic
team of engineers and scientists worked on 14 years, before most of
today's engineers were born, as the most sensible way to allocate what
our machines are producing for our population's consumption of the
highest quality instead of settling for less due to dollarsigns
dictating.
==
JCT: Again, the Technocracy energy accounting system is a 1/s
LETS currency which cannot but work perfectly if given the chance.
==
Why is that so horrendous for most people to "grok?" When they can
debate convoluted philosophical avenues endlessly, yet seldom
consider the REAL FACTS of where we are today, how many people there
are today, how many babies are going to be born by Y2K and how much
food and fiber is being produced NOW to care for all these additional
humans -- instead of debating politics.
Do the math. At the rate that 3 billion now in their reproductive
years will be making babies, we'll add another population the
magnitude of CHINA or INDIA in the next twelve months.
So while people are discussing everything under the SUN, why not get
realistic about how we're going to feed another billion babies
onboard this Spaceship Earth.
==
JCT: Because they've been led to debate "how we rule ourselves"
as opposed to "how we save ourselves." I keep imagining how many
Canadians will answer when they're asked by their grandchildren in 50
years what they were doing when faced with global ecological disaster:
1) "I was fighting for bilingualism."
2) "I was fighting for multi-culturalism."
3) "I was fighting for an elected senate."
4) "I was fighting against racism, sexism, or any other ism."
Given success in these endeavors, none would help save the planet
from the disasters facing us. Only facing the monetary shortage in
order to come up with enough paychecks to put people to work saving
ourselves is the answer. If not, let our planet's epitaph state:
"A society which couldn't print up enough money to pay themselves
to save themselves."
===
So, if it's true that for centuries people have yearned for a
Utopia, what are we waiting for?
==
JCT: Actually, we're but an instant away from the Heaven many of
you see. Once the large Rothschild and Rockefeller controlled banks
start offering interest-free Greendollar or Timedollar accounts, the
planet will be saved. Interesting isn't it that the scions of the
usurers who got us into such dire predicaments will have to be the
ones to get us out. I don't think it can be done in time without their
approval and assistance. So just as bankers have led us into disaster
by steering credit into war and destruction, so too, they will have to
lead us to safety. If the planet dies, only the bankers who financed
its destruction and refused to finance its survival will be to blame.
==
We were handed this planet free and clear, with plenty of space for
everybody when we were only one billion in 1850. Two billion by 1930
and 5.9 billion in late 1998. So you can see for yourself we're not
getting smaller.
If we all want to live well and secure and want our children and
grandchildren to not inherit out trillions in IOU's when this
generation cannot pay off its debt from WW II --
It wouldn't hurt to learn how an Energy Accounting System would
nicely replace all this pricing and debt and compound interest that
seems to be the siren song for those who don't have to work for a
livelihood.
==
JCT: More and more people are learning how interest-free money
works by joining LETSystems. Unfortunately, most still don't see the
big picture. Though they love how it works on the small database, how
it would work nationally or internationally still eludes most. But
they won't stay slow forever.
==
Gambling has become our way of paying for schools. What message does
that accord our children? And what about the addiction of casinos as
was shown by one man who lost millions at the gambling tables and now
wants to SUE them for ignoring his letters, saying that he has an
addiction and should no longer be welcome. And whole states that are
co-dependent on gambling and glitz for its revenues.
==
JCT: Of course, once money had been stabilized and everyone will
be quite well off, no one will care that me and my friends like to
gamble.
==
When, by merely voting for a different bookkeeping system, we could
all enjoy U.T.O.P.I.A. which is Utilizing Techno-logical Operating
Practices Integrating Abundancy we already have -- and cannot sell
$14 billions worth each month to anybody else.
==
JCT: Unfortunately, most people just cannot believe that the Hell
we're stuck in can be turned into Heaven by the simple switch of
banking software.
==
We're already here folks -- no need to argue and debate all the
various money and dividend systems proposed. They are all related to
THE PRICE SYSTEM that perpetuates poverty in the midst of PLENTY FOR
ALL. Mary Therise -- if you receive this, I just got an email from
Junk Economics that they could not take my posting. Nor probably this
one. JQSCOTT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
==
JCT: Dear JQ. Are you any relation to Howard? If so, I'm sure
he'd be proud of you.
==
--
John C. "The Engineer" Turmel, Founder, Abolitionist Party of Canada
915-2045 Carling Ave., Ottawa, K2A 1G5, Tel/Fax: 613-728-2196
LETS Abolish Interest Rates http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel
For TURMEL topic http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/lets
-----
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
