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--- Begin Message ------ End Message ---
-Caveat Lector- Look, Leo, I posted your own paperwork on this list a few months ago showing US Treasury documents revealing you to be a confidential informant and authorising payment to you for information provided. Two seperate payments. I can post them again if you or anyone else wishes?You can object and splutter all you want. You can play Goebbelian truth-games about what is reality and what is not. But for my cents worth, the only "intell operations" I am interfering with, are those of the delusional variety.----- Original Message -----From: Ambassador Leo E WantaSent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 6:21 PMSubject: Re: [CIA-DRUGS] Re: Ruppert, Credibility and Vreeland2Dear "Goldbug"
CEASE and DESIST, your false allegations that Ambassador Wanta is a paid informant, as you are fully aware that this is absolutely false and misleading - and - interfering with other ongoing INTEL investigations.. simply, try harder to e an objective investigative journalist in London.
Reference to: -
Goldbug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Emerald Green, let's get some facts straight and while we're doing it finally put to bed some old, but lingering nonsense.Wanta posted on this list last year, links to documents that showed he was a paid confidential informant for the US Treasury and Customs. No spookery there, just an old fashioned snitch going about his business.Wanta doesn't have a "power" attorney and never has had one. he's a con man.Vreeland was a con man who ultimately conned Wanta which resulted in Wanta's arrest, last year, by the FBI.There is no honour among thieves.----- Original Message -----From: EmeraldGreenSent: Monday, January 27, 2003 4:15 PMSubject: Re: [CIA-DRUGS] Re: Ruppert, Credibility and Vreeland2Dear Sean and Lday,
As one of the few who actually met Vreeland and spoke extensively with his attorneys and of which an attorney from the US came with me to Canada.
It is perfectly clear to us that Vreeland works for the so-called Shadow Government. He was one of the Power of Attorney;s for ambassador Wanta.
We saw proof of this. Wanta's accounts are clearly front companies for the "company" there is no questions that Vreeland was and is an agent. The big question is was he a freelancer for hire? Vreeland was in a bad position, being under the National Security Act of 1947 he could not give out certain info which made him appear illegitimate. But that's the way the spook world likes it- its easy to distance themselves from an agent that is easy to discredit. Its their game,
illusion, deception denial.
At 03:30 PM 1/27/2003 +0000, you wrote:
Sean,
You wrote:
"...I came under heavy attack
> from Ruppert supporters, but eventually most of them had to
reverse their
> opinion and admit the obvious -- Vreeland was a con man."
This was one big psy-op to distract people (like you?) from the
important and critical issue.
Determining "..the obvious -- Vreeland was a
con man" was never a relevent matter. Of course he was a con man:
All good field operatives are con men, otherwise they don't get the
job. No "reversal of opinion" was ever necessary.
Was Vreeland **JUST** a con man? No, absolutely not,
the hypotheses is destroyed by the evidence.
I wonder if you have read Sander Hicks' "Wildcard" article
at GNN? He set out to write the "just-a-con-man" story,
but that is not where the facts lead him.
Regarding David Corn you write:
"Ruppert's mistake with Vreeland gave David Corn an opportunity to
damage Ruppert's credibility in the mainstream media."
Coming from you this is really shocking to say the least.
We know who controls the "mainstream media", and we may have noticed
that the "mainstream media" gave zero attention to Mike Ruppert
well before the Vreeland affair. David Corn fell for
the "opportunity" to destroy his own credibility by revealing
who he was shilling for. Is there a connection between the CIA and
the drugs? Somehow heroin doesn't get mentioned in Corn's "Blonde
Ghost" whitewash.
Read (reread?) what Ruppert actually wrote about Lt. Vreeland's
credibility:
"...I have been studying, interacting with, and talking to covert
operatives for more than 25 years. It is for that reason that I avoid
some of the questions being raised by dilettantes and neophyte
journalists who take all of the threads of Vreeland's stories and run
with them into a wilderness from which no professional journalist
could credibly emerge. Yes, I have listened to him talk about so-
called red mercury, baseball-sized atom bombs, and Star Wars weapons
systems. Yes, I have heard him talk about a great many things, and I
believe that what he told me was truthful according to his knowledge
of events and the documents he brought back from Moscow in December
2000.
Even by his own statements, Vreeland, now 35, was a relatively low
ranking officer and an intelligence field operative. Never in the
history of covert operations has any government entrusted field
operatives with total strategic knowledge because the knowledge held
by those who make the plans is compartmentalized and locked away.
Perhaps 80 percent of all intelligence work is disinformation, and
governments know that their field operatives risk capture,
interrogation and torture. Quite often field operatives are
themselves fed disinformation so that if they talk, they will still
spread lies that serve a larger strategic purpose. Quite often they
carry documents that are deliberately inaccurate and their capture is
engineered to give those documents credibility.
"To the U.S. government, Vreeland is totally expendable. And those
who run with every piece of information he has disclosed will
themselves be proven fools in a fool's game.
But one question remains. And it is a question that now stands
vindicated by time and events. He knew something chillingly accurate
about the 9-11 attacks before they happened. And if he knew
something, based upon documents given to him by Russian officials
indicating U.S. knowledge, and if the U.S. government went to great
lengths to discredit him, rather than bring him in from the cold --
then there is real meat on the plate for journalists, the American
government, and all of mankind."
Note this last is an 'if-then' sentence.
What concerns 'all of mankind' more than terrorists with
weapons of mass destruction capable of collapsing buildings?
Did the terrorist Aum Shinrikyo cult predict the Kobe earthquake
or did they cause it? I don't know, but I'd bet a dime that
Oleg Lobov knows. How did Oleg get into the Lt's jailhouse memo?
Didn't the Murrah building and the WTC towers show seismic spikes
just *before* they collapsed?
Also from the memo: "brown recluse". That was exceedingly mysterious
in December of 2,000. Curiously since then the link with anthrax
has been established.
Also from the memo: "Dr. Haider--whose his contacts".
Did you know in 2000 that Dr. Haider was a top Al-Qaida
official in charge of travel documents, forgery and
identity theft?
What are "bin Laden", "WTC", "Pentagon" doing in the memo?
Frankly I think the memo stands by itself as evidence
quite regardless of whether Lt Vreeland was
a con man, a Gemini or a 'cut loose' ONI contact operative
looking to make a deal.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Sean McBride" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I've wasted very little time on either Vreeland or Ruppert. I
dropped out of the Vreeland discussion long before a critical mass of
people caught on to him -- the controversy was ridiculous, in my
opinion. Vreeland was making no sense at all. But I did have to
sift through a lot of aimless discussion on the topic in this list
and elsewhere for months. Talk about a black hole.
>
> Ruppert was Vreeland's biggest supporter by far. Ruppert was the
only reason that folks here gave Vreeland the time of day. Ruppert's
mistake with Vreeland gave David Corn an opportunity to damage
Ruppert's credibility in the mainstream media.
>
> There is potentially a very good book and screenplay in the whole
affair. I saw Confessions of a Dangerous Mind the other night (worth
seeing), and immediately saw the possibilities of developing the
Vreeland story as a kind of dark comedy. It certainly has its
colorful and humorous elements.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Tinnin
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [CIA-DRUGS] Re: Ruppert predicts WAR on Tuesday,
then his website gets taken down
>
>
> "Do you have any idea how much time and energy people wasted on
Delmart
> Vreeland thanks to Michael Ruppert's repeated firm assertions ..."
>
> And you blame Ruppert for this? You were one of the first
naysayers. So,
> given that you probably already were convinced that he was a dead
end, how
> much time did you waste on it? And how much time and energy have
you spent
> trying to discredit Ruppert because of Vreeland's issues? I mean,
doesn't
> your assertion, which you make over and over, point just a bit to
your own
> obsession with the subject? Which must take some time, which
obviously could
> be better spent, as you say.
>
> - jt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean McBride" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Tabitha,
>
> Do you have any idea how much time and energy people wasted on
Delmart
> Vreeland thanks to Michael Ruppert's repeated firm assertions
that Vreeland
> was going to produce authentic documents that would blow 911 wide
open?
>
> I was the first person in this list to question Ruppert's and
Vreeland's
> credibility, based on the simple exercise of my common sense and
the
> recognition that Vreeland was trying to palm off on the world a
forged
> document blaming Iraq for 911. For my trouble I came under heavy
attack
> from Ruppert supporters, but eventually most of them had to
reverse their
> opinion and admit the obvious -- Vreeland was a con man.
>
> Ruppert also promoted the absurd notion that Vreeland had been
poisoned by a
> bottle of wine sent by Alan Greenspan. I remember clearly the
night I
> received that message -- I knew instantly and for a certainty
that Ruppert
> had lost it.
>
> Sorry -- I'll read Ruppert's new research, but there are other
researchers
> whose work I regard more highly, including the authors of the
articles I
> just pointed you to.
>
> What proof do you have that Vreeland actually worked for ONI?
>
> I had quite a few conversations with Vreeland, and he kept
changing his
> story from day to day. He claimed to be a scientific and
technical genius,
> but didn't sound like one in his writings.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tabitha Montgomery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 1:19 AM
> Subject: [CIA-DRUGS] Re: Ruppert predicts WAR on Tuesday, then
his website
> gets taken down
>
>
> Oh Please!
>
> Ruppert's crediblity DOES NOT hinge upon whether Bush's war
starts then or
> not. He's making a well-informed decision based on intelligence
he's
> received. Bush is the Commander in Chief; he could friggin'
change his mind
> just before the SOTU address if he damn well feels like it, and
it ain't
> gonna sink my opinion of Ruppert.
>
> I don't have time to go into the Vreeland thing, but long and
short of it,
> hon, Vreeland remains an enigma to just about everyone he came
into contact
> with. Ruppert willingly admits that Vreeland lied to him;
Vreeland coulnd't
> reveal all his cards with what he knew about 9-11 because it was
obvious the
> man still wanted some wiggle room with his "minders" in US
Intelligence; he
> was looking to cut a deal with him as his trial loomed. The man
has
> disappeared. But Ruppert was correct in asserting that Vreeland
was indeed
> what he said he was: ONI.
>
> What makes you think OIL ISN"T the reason behind all this?
>
> Tabby
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Sean McBride"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This will be a real test case for what remains of Ruppert's
tattered
> credibility.
> >
> > If the war does start next week, he will seem like a genius
and a
> prophet.
> >
> > If it doesn't, then his credibility will take a big hit --
nearly as big
> a hit as it took over Delmart Vreeland.
> >
> > I would bet that the war doesn't start next week, but I can't
be
> certain. I can't gauge the full depth of the bad judgment of the
fellow who
> is currently commander-in-chief. It may well be even worse than
we suspect.
> >
> > Have you heard any of Bush's public statements about Iraq on
television
> or the radio during the last week? Bush no longer even vaguely
resembles a
> world leader -- he is sputtering like a petulant child. At the
moment when
> he needs to be leading the nation with forceful and compelling
arguments, he
> is falling apart and losing his political support all across the
board. We
> may have a real disaster on our hands.
> >
> > He may start the war simply as an outlet for his confusion and
> frustration over his steep political descent.
> >
> > Not a word that has come out of his mouth at any time has
revealed an
> understanding of any aspect of Middle East politics. Under the
influence of
> Christian Zionists, he has cut off all of his Mideast advisors
with the
> exception of those who are farther to the right on the Israeli
political
> spectrum than Ariel Sharon. I mean this literally: the Netanyahu
camp, to
> which Richard Perle and the rest of his neocon cronies belong,
believe that
> Ariel Sharon is a dangerous leftist.
> >
> > I find Michael Ruppert's focus on oil in analyzing the
current behavior
> of the Bush administration to be far off the mark. Whether he
hasn't
> studied what is actually going on, or is a deliberate
disinformationalist
> for Israeli interests, I haven't yet decided. Based on his
behavior
> overall, I lean to the second explanation.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tabitha Montgomery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 5:48 AM
> > Subject: [CIA-DRUGS] Ruppert predicts WAR on Tuesday, then
his website
> gets taken down
> >
> >
> > Here is the bulletin I just received from Mike:
> >
> >
> > FTW URGENT BULLETIN
> > Serious international developments are indicating that the
first
> > stages of the U.S.
> > invasion of Iraq will begin unilaterally no later than next
Wednesday
> > and most likely
> > as the President delivers his State of the Union address to
Congress
> > on Tuesday night.
> > -----------------------
> >
> > Mike provided a link to the full story; but when I tried to
access
> > From The Wilderness, the site had been taken down. This
is a
> > constant pattern with Mike Ruppert every time he gets the
jump on
> > everyone else and breaks another story with international
> > implications that the Bush Administration and the Pentagon
does not
> > want you to know about. He is used to this, and has been
prepared
> > for this. He maintains his website on over a half dozen
other mirror
> > sites just for such an occasion. I just checked again, and
the main
> > page of his mirror sites are up, but you can't get past the
main
> > page. Ruppert is chronically being fucked with so he is
constantly
> > switching servers, and has his site behind several
> > industrial-strength firewalls. And still he gets
sabotaged. These
> > are not simply right wing cranks or college whiz kids
screwing with
> > Mr. Ruppert, but an entity with the highest ability and
intelligence
> > surveillance tools to do this.
> >
> > So whaddya'll think?
>
>
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L'ambassadeur de Somalia `a Berne / Ottawa
His Excellency, Leo Emil WantaDiplomatic Passports No. 04362 and 12535
Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Mogadishu
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. <A HREF="">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html <A HREF="">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A>
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