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--- Begin Message ----Caveat Lector- gets interesting after my post.....b fortis Senior Member45 posts, May 2004 posted 05-05-2004 08:56 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'll be open about this. I'm pretty sceptical about the existance of chemtrails. (At least in the commonly accepted usage of the phrase. I do, however, accept that occasional releases of materials into the atmosphere have occured, and still do occur, such as cloud seeding, etc., though on a far smaller scale than is suggested by chemtrail advocates.) Having got that out of the way, my question is, "When were the first chemtrails observed, and by who?" By this, I'm referring to the "modern" experience of the phenomena, not earlier confirmed releases, such as Agent Orange being released over Vietnam. I'm trying to find that first "Eureka!" moment, when someone looked up into the sky and said "That's not right!" (As far as I can tell, it seems to be sometime around the mid-90s, but I can't seem to pin it down better than that.) Given the level of activity on this site, I'm guessing that you guys are likely to have some insight into the answer, or at least are likely to be able to point me in the direction of someone who does. (Is it worth posting the same question over at the Carnicom site?) Mods, I think that this is the correct forum for the question, but strictly speaking it is a historical question, so please bump it over to anywhere you feel is more appropriate. increase 1776 Senior Member Oregon 574 posts, Oct 2000 posted 05-08-2004 01:30 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There's a book you could get from the library titled Instant Weather Forecasting.Library of Congress Catalog Card #68-9173 Published in 1968 Photos#1,#3,#14,#16 all show chemtrails.Can't tell you what year the photos were taken. fortis Senior Member 45 posts, May 2004 posted 05-08-2004 03:51 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Increase, Thanks for that. I guess that really what I'm trying to discover is the when, where, and who, of their identification as anything other than contrails. I suspect, though I would have to verify this in the book that you quote, that the book just describes them as contrails. It's the "Eureka!" moment that I'm focussing in on. As an aside, I have found linear aerial phenomena (i.e. chemtrails or persistent contrails, depending on your preference) in DMSP satellite imagery from 1977 at http://www.envsci.rutgers.edu/~veron/DeGrand_etal_2000.pdf Ken Welch in Houston New Member Houston, Texas 19 posts, Jun 2004 posted 06-08-2004 04:52 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is an easy question for old timers like me. The first chemtrails were reported nationally in early 1999 by Will Thomas via radio and internet articles. Thomas, a reporter and writer with Gulf War experience, tracked the initial sightings to the beginning of the second week in December, 1998. In other words, on or immediately following PEARL HARBOR day, clearly signifying the true nature of the program. fortis Senior Member 45 posts, May 2004 posted 06-08-2004 07:25 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ken, Thanks very much for the reply. I now have a name and time window to focus on. skizz Senior Member usa 62 posts, Jun 2004 posted 06-12-2004 01:52 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ this site has a little info on dates http://changingplanet.supremalex.org/skywatch/chem/ billder Senior Member Hachita New Mexico USA 130 posts, Feb 2002 posted 06-24-2004 08:34 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have pix of chemtrails from a National Geographic magazine SPECIAL EDITION on WATER from 91 or 93 I think (watch, it'll be 92)...they are in the archives here...also in the archives here are pix from a western magazine that show perhaps some of the earliest photographed chems, early experiments, late 80's...i saw early tests in late 70's but had no idea and was steered away from that by my commanding officer...bearden has LOTS of weird stuff dating back to 70's...HERE is a killer link called PATENTLY OBVIOUS---all the patents (&some pix) since about 1917 having to do with aerosol ops: http://users.ev1.net/~seektress/patlist.htm Uroborus New Member TX 15 posts, Jun 2004 posted 06-25-2004 07:42 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Great documents billder! It seems this operation is finally starting to unfold. Wahoooooo! This is good news people. First we get the lightwatcher.com document and then come the TAP documents. Now some documents proving this has gone on way longer then what most people seem to think. I for one have always thought programs like this have been going on for decades. I think the difference now is that it's happening on a daily basis around the globe. Amazing documents billder. I appreciate you posting them. ------------------ Knowledge is power. Arm yourself! bigjoe Weather Observer Western New York 289 posts, Dec 2002 posted 06-25-2004 09:00 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the sky, and the dates on these photos. All the data appears right below the photos... The quality isn't the best on some of these photos... sorry. http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17778 http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17780 http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17798 http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17853 http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17892 http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17896 http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17837 No date on this one, but judging from the condition of that beautiful 1958 Chevy in the foreground, I'd say this one was taken somewhere between 1958-1960- Check out that sky over downtown Manhattan... http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17972 http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17781 If you don't mind spending alot of time sifting through a lot of above ground subway photos, there are a few other gems included within the "subway" photos section of this website also, but it will take some digging. My hunch is that the aerosol operations actually started sometime in the early 1940's, and chemmed over skies actually were not uncommon beginning as early as the late 1940's/early 1950's. [Edited 10 times, lastly by bigjoe on 06-25-2004] Jeanie Senior Member North East U.S.A. 543 posts, Nov 2001 posted 06-25-2004 09:28 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Big Joe; Thanks for posting those pictures. I am amazed that ct's in early 70's and 80's escaped my notice... JerseyBluEyz Trust the Universe Northeast 1161 posts, Jul 2003 posted 06-25-2004 10:01 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Uroborus: First we get the lightwatcher.com document ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What lightwatcher document? Thanks. [Edited 1 times, lastly by JerseyBluEyz on 06-25-2004] JerseyBluEyz Trust the Universe Northeast 1161 posts, Jul 2003 posted 06-25-2004 10:08 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Big Joe: Out of all your links, the only one I could access was this one: No date on this one, but judging from the condition of that beautiful 1958 Chevy in the foreground, I'd say this one was taken somewhere between 1958-1960- Check out that sky over downtown Manhattan... http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17972 The other images come up blank and say: Sorry can't find image (and then the image number). OK is it me, or are others here having trouble viewing these images? I have a feeling something is up with my computer ONCE AGAIN! Freakin Windows XP! HELP! bigjoe Weather Observer Western New York 289 posts, Dec 2002 posted 06-25-2004 10:46 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is truely amazing! These photos have been available on this website to log onto for years and I've never had any problems here before. They were all here this morning when I posted the links to them. Within a few hours of the links being posted here, all, except for the 1958-1960 photo which JBE mentions, have been pulled! My only guess is that somebody doesn't want them to be seen. JBE, obviously there's nothing wrong with your computer, as I'm now getting the same message that you are and I can't log onto them either. Jeanie, you must have been lucky and been able to log onto them just before they were pulled. Sorry everyone... they were indeed great photos, and I wish that you could have seen them, as they would have proven that there were chemtrails at least as far back as 1971. [Edited 5 times, lastly by bigjoe on 06-25-2004] snakelady I have a Status? WOW! 75 posts, Jun 2004 posted 06-25-2004 10:53 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's that in the sky? JerseyBluEyz Trust the Universe Northeast 1161 posts, Jul 2003 posted 06-25-2004 11:05 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bigjoe: Well that sure stinks! I got to the mainpage - http://www.nycsubway.org - I just loved the subway tokens in the upper corner of that page! Do you know which section heading you went under to get to those old photos? That site is loaded! I love the images! I would love to see the date that particular page with your images was last modified! JerseyBluEyz Trust the Universe Northeast 1161 posts, Jul 2003 posted 06-25-2004 11:07 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by snakelady: What's that in the sky? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planes landing at or taking off at an airport? Although, why would they be back to back like that? Maybe they're maneuvering? How old is that photo? Jeanie Senior Member North East U.S.A. 543 posts, Nov 2001 posted 06-25-2004 01:13 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well I do believe someone didn't want the ct pictures from the 70's and 80's seen. I did see each and every one of them without problem. Now it's one out of eight available. Nothing surprises me anymore. bigjoe Weather Observer Western New York 289 posts, Dec 2002 posted 06-25-2004 03:57 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ JBE, here's a link to the page you wanted to see. There were many more photos that were taken off shortly after I posted the links to them. This page was very rarely modified, and the photos that I posted the links to had been on there for years. As you can see down in the very lower left hand corner of the page with the link I've provided below, it was last modified today, shortly after my posting of these links... http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/index.html This page last modified on Friday, 25-Jun-2004 13:06:39 EDT. As Jeannie said... Nothing surprises me anymore! [Edited 7 times, lastly by bigjoe on 06-25-2004] JerseyBluEyz Trust the Universe Northeast 1161 posts, Jul 2003 posted 06-25-2004 04:30 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BigJoe: Sorry!!! Unbelievable! I'm sure if you had the images saved to your hard drive or on disk you'd have reposted them for us right? Darn it! This sure is a big lesson for me - I am definitely going to start copying articles and images I have under my Favorites to disk! I've been wanting to do it for a while now. Since you're on the east coast like me, I'm going to assume that every time you post, your time is off by 3 hours. If yes, that would mean that whoever was done modifying that webpage finished it a little over an hour after you posted the links! Pretty efficient I¹d say huh? heh, heh. bigjoe Weather Observer Western New York 289 posts, Dec 2002 posted 06-25-2004 04:49 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You're absolutely correct, JBE! billder Senior Member Hachita New Mexico USA 130 posts, Feb 2002 posted 06-25-2004 05:00 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ wow...went to links...NO SUCH DEVICE OR ADDRESS....sometimes the absence of something is MUCH more indicative than its presence, eh? OHS strikes again...one nice thing...if they are watching us this close, they must be hurting REALLY badly....too bad about those pix though...thanx Big Joe! There are many friends of mine are going to be interested in this thread....b All times are CT (US) next newest topic | next oldest topic Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic Hop to: Go Contact Us | Chemtrail Central Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
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