-Caveat Lector- At a Sovjet work place, just a sceptical remark about the system could be punished by death.
In The Sovjet Union, they had KZ-camps alerady from 1919. Here children could also be executed. Hunger and starvation was used to control the masses. The Gulags received 20 millions, who were starved and forced to work hard under extremely cruel conditions. Millions died. All this is even worse than fascism. Yours, Ole Gerstrom, Denmark ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Bpyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: [CTRL] DEBATE: COMMUNISM VS. FASCISM...DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED GOVTS > -Caveat Lector- > > Reply from E. Murray: > > Subject: DEBATE: COMMUNISM VS. FASCISM...DIAMETRICALLY > OPPOSED GOVTS > > I believe you are still spouting a mess of > dis-information. Hitler would turn over in his grave > if he heard you say this, as he detested Stalin, they > were bitter enemies. > > Hitler was highly successful for nearly two years in > invading and taking over Russia (1941-1943) during > WWII. About five million Russian soldiers died in > this invasion, not to speak of the numbers of millions > of common people dead; Hitler's command was to kill > Jews first, then other Russians. > > Stalin was not a dictator...after Lenin died of a > botched medical operation (1928), Stalin became the > top dog and was known as "General Secretary" for about > ten years, then as "Commander in Chief." The term > dictator is one you are using, applied from the > outside, not by Russians or their military ever. > Hitler was known as a "dictator"...this is only a > Fascist term, not a Communistic one. > > Communism in Russia included the "state" taking over > farms and industries...the "kalaks" farmers would up > loosing their farms to "collectives" which Stalin > established (1930s). But the point was that the > Politburo & Central Committee, was HUGE...that it > owned all the property & the public...Stalin was > governing a massive governmental body. This is part of > the Communist system...massive govt body. Fascism is > not like this, it is rule by a SMALL elite group, > there is NO "Politburo"...no, not at all. Fascists do > not take over property, Hitler did demand that Germans > serve in the military however. As far as "socialism" > there are have been many, many different degrees of > socialism, and different definitions by govts. There > are many different levels of the use of > socialism...Hitler's use of this term could have meant > anything really, it was a term used to support his > demands that people have a deep abiding support a > nationalistic attitude towards the Fascism. Small > programs adopted by govts could consitute the use of > this term...that does not mean the country is adopting > Communism. Marx's use of this term was more sweeping, > huge, but nowdays its definition has much flexibility > and does not imply the adoption of communism. In > Russia it apparently DID imply the use of full bore > Communism. Its definitions vary, depending up who is > using it. > > These forms of govts ARE diametrically > opposed...Stalin hated Hitler so much that he executed > 30,000 of his OWN army in 1937 for having sympathies > with Germany, Fascism. Many Russians did not > apparently LIKE Jewish rule or the Jewish govt...some > of them actually sided with Fascists, who obviously > wanted Jews annihilated. > > Your take on "socialism" needs far more research. > Your assumption that there is anything in common > between Communism and Fascism is simply bullshit. > Fascists murder, when they can, Communists. > Communists do likewise. Never the twain shall meet. > Socialism is simply a "general catch phrase" for govt- > sponsored public programs. > > E Murray > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > > > > Using the term "Commu-Nazi," which I assume means > > > "Communist-Nazi" is an erroneous. double noun. > > These > > > two political systems are diametrically opposed to > > > each other, opposites. They do not merge, like > > oil > > > and water. The oil is Communism, the main > > doctrine of > > > which was co-authored by K. Marx, a German Jew. > > > Communism is a political system championed by > > many, if > > > not most, Jews. Communism = Judaism = oil. > > > > Nonsense. > > > > One of the founders of Fascism, Mussolini was a > > dedicated Socialist who wanted > > Socialism taken to a 'higher level' by advocating > > 'Fascism'. Both systems are > > Collectivist. Both are based on all encompassing > > Statism. > > > > The Nazis (National SOCIALISTS) considered their > > system reformed socialism. > > The Hitler Gang saw how the Lenin Gang almost failed > > because they displaced > > the old elite with a new, inexperienced elite. > > Fascism and Nazism were more > > efficient then Socialism because they co-opted the > > existing elite into their > > ranks rather then immediate and wholesale > > displacement. > > > > In both systems The Party is paramount in all > > things. By forcing the old > > elite to join the Party, the Nazis totally > > controlled all power levers of > > society. > > > > The good ole US of A is now a Corporate > > Socio-Fascist State. > > > > This working model establishes a coercive > > partnership and synerigistic > > relationship between the corporate and political > > power structure. A merger of > > all ruling elements into one master interest group. > > It takes the Leninist / Nazi > > modelone step further. > > > > The U.S. exists under the One True Party. A hidden > > party - one > > that all corporate and political elite belong, > > including the power structure of > > the fake front parties - the RepubliKrats and > > DemiKans. > > flw > > > > www.ctrl.org > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > > ========== > > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. > > Proselytizing propagandic > > screeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not > > soap-boxingâ?"please! These are > > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'â?"with its > > many half-truths, mis- > > directions and outright fraudsâ?"is used politically > > by different groups with > > major and minor effects spread throughout the > > spectrum of time and thought. > > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the > > > > > > > CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > I believe this is a bunch of dis-information, period. > Hitler would turn over in his grave if he heard you > say this, he hated Stalin, they were bitter enemies, > he was highly successful for nearly two years in > invading and taking over Russia (1941-1943). About > five million Russian soldiers died in this invasion, > not to speak of the numbers of millions of common > people dead; Hitler eliminated Jews first, then other > Russians. > > Stalin was not a dictator...after Lenin died of a > botched operation (1928), Stalin became the top dog > and was known as "General Secretary" for about ten > years, then as "Commander in Chief." The term dictator > is one you are using, applied from the outside, not by > Russians or their military ever. Hitler was known as > a "dictator"...this is only a Fascist term, not a > Communistic one. > > Communism in Russia included the "state" taking over > farms and industries...the "kalaks" farmers would up > loosing their farms to "collectives" which Stalin > established (1930s). But the point was that the > Politburo & Central Committee, was HUGE...that it > owned all the property & the public...Stalin was > governing a massive governmental body. This is part of > the Communist system...massive govt body. Fascism is > not like this, it is rule by a SMALL elite group, > there is NO "Politburo"...no, not at all. Fascists do > not take over property, Hitler did demand that Germans > serve in the military however. As far as "socialism" > there are have been many, many different degrees of > socialism, and different definitions by govts. There > are many different levels of the use of > socialism...Hitler's use of this term could have meant > anything really, it was a term used to support his > demands that people have a deep abiding support a > nationalistic attitude towards the Fascism. Small > programs adopted by govts could consitute the use of > this term...that does not mean the country is adopting > Communism. Marx's use of this term was more sweeping, > huge, but nowdays its definition has much flexibility > and does not imply the adoption of communism. In > Russia it apparently DID imply the use of full bore > Communism. Its definitions vary, depending up who is > using it. > > These forms of govts ARE diametrically > opposed...Stalin hated Hitler so much that he executed > 30,000 of his OWN army in 1937 for having sympathies > with Germany, Fascism. Many Russians did not > apparently LIKE Jewish rule or the Jewish govt...some > of them actually sided with Fascists, who obviously > wanted Jews annihilated. > > Your take on "socialism" needs far more research. > Your assumption that there is anything in common > between Communism and Fascism is simply bullshit. > Fascists murder, when they can, Communists. > Communists do likewise. Never the twain shall meet. > Socialism is simply a "general catch phrase" for govt- > sponsored public programs. > > E Murray > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > > > > Using the term "Commu-Nazi," which I assume means > > > "Communist-Nazi" is an erroneous. double noun. > > These > > > two political systems are diametrically opposed to > > > each other, opposites. They do not merge, like > > oil > > > and water. The oil is Communism, the main > > doctrine of > > > which was co-authored by K. Marx, a German Jew. > > > Communism is a political system championed by > > many, if > > > not most, Jews. Communism = Judaism = oil. > > > > Nonsense. > > > > One of the founders of Fascism, Mussolini was a > > dedicated Socialist who wanted > > Socialism taken to a 'higher level' by advocating > > 'Fascism'. Both systems are > > Collectivist. Both are based on all encompassing > > Statism. > > > > The Nazis (National SOCIALISTS) considered their > > system reformed socialism. > > The Hitler Gang saw how the Lenin Gang almost failed > > because they displaced > > the old elite with a new, inexperienced elite. > > Fascism and Nazism were more > > efficient then Socialism because they co-opted the > > existing elite into their > > ranks rather then immediate and wholesale > > displacement. > > > > In both systems The Party is paramount in all > > things. By forcing the old > > elite to join the Party, the Nazis totally > > controlled all power levers of > > society. > > > > The good ole US of A is now a Corporate > > Socio-Fascist State. > > > > This working model establishes a coercive > > partnership and synerigistic > > relationship between the corporate and political > > power structure. A merger of > > all ruling elements into one master interest group. > > It takes the Leninist / Nazi > > modelone step further. > > > > The U.S. exists under the One True Party. A hidden > > party - one > > that all corporate and political elite belong, > > including the power structure of > > the fake front parties - the RepubliKrats and > > DemiKans. > > flw > > > > www.ctrl.org > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > > ========== > > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. > > Proselytizing propagandic > > screeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not > > soap-boxingâ?"please! These are > > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'â?"with its > > many half-truths, mis- > > directions and outright fraudsâ?"is used politically > > by different groups with > > major and minor effects spread throughout the > > spectrum of time and thought. > > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ > > www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > ========== > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substanceâ?"not soap-boxingâ?"please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'â?"with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fraudsâ?"is used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > ======================================================================== > Archives Available at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > <A HREF="http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl</A> > ======================================================================== > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
