-Caveat Lector- from: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37aa739f0bdd.htm <A HREF="http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37aa739f0bdd.htm">George W. Bush May Have Big Surprise From DEA D </A> ----- To: metalbird1 Thanks for this post metalbird1. I guess folks still believe the major party nominees are selected by the people. If a maverick succeeds in becoming the nominee despite every attempt by the controlled media to destroy him, he will be offered the same ultimatum Reagan was reportedly offered by Rockefeller: "Accept our hand-picked cabinet officers and choice for Vice-President or the only way you'll see the inside of the White House is as a tourist." Reagan must have decided it was the only way to get in and he'd make the best of it. Of course we know Reagan was almost bumped off soon after by a Bush family friend. The shadow government likes to have major candidates who support their globalist, anti-constitutional agenda. In case the candidate decides to stray,they like to have the goods on them. Perhaps the "sting" was meant for later possible use. I'm sure a Bush dynasty could havebeen planned long ago. The insiders have a stable of globalist candidates they have a rap sheet on who can be thrust into positions of power.Look hard enough and you'll find Bradley's Achilles heel. The press knows who the anointed are and wont trumpet the flaws until ordered to. Look how Clinton skated with his miserable record. If this is true about W., it's a powerful sledgehammer in their toolbox to keep him in line or manipulate an election if they so desire.There are documented cases of DEA doing their job but higher ups subsequently squashing the results of an investigation. Perhaps the sorriest spectacle of how our elections are manipulated was when the insiders wanted an America firster --Taft-- pushed out. The wall street/New York bankers heavily financed washed up former president Teddy Roosevelt to split the Taft vote and they also heavily financed the democrat, Wilson. How the bankers must have laughed(and still do) at the peoples stupidity, Both Roosevelt and Wilson toured the country blasting Wall Street bankers and how they control things. Both candidates were financed and beholden to those very bankers they carped against. Of course, Wilson got in and he proceeded to give a room in the White House for "Colonel" House who sheparded through the Federal Reserve Act which the bankers lusted after. We also got the income tax to pay the interest on the soon to come debt, and a nice world war for the government to borrow heavily on with their new found line of unlimited credit.The entire monetary system of the US and control over our economy and fortunes was handed over to a private cartel of bankers.How transparent these elections are, what a vaudeville act. The only hope of getting a genuine candidate in is to en-masse get behind a legitimate constitutionalist of such integrity he will refuse to appoint a subversive CFR Vice president or cabinet. 92 Posted on 08/06/1999 07:45:29 PDT by Patriot76 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ===== " Well it turns out that the wealthy Texans were George W. and Jeb Bush who flew in on the family owned King Air to pick up the cocaine themselves. Hidden DEA cameras filmed the whole incident, including the tail number of the aircraft and both Bushes' participation. According to Reed, nobody knew in advance who the buyers were. Reed states that he has both the tail number of the aircraft and the DEA case file number and that he strongly expects that tape to turn up during the 2000 presidential campaign. " My sources report that Barry Seal had a copy of this film and used it to blackmail George Bush, which explains his seeming invulnerability for a time and his White House visit to meet with the then VP. When finally taken to court, the judge sentanced him to a halfway house, specifically forbidding Barry to have a gun or to hire bodyguards, so of course when the hit squad showed up, Barry was a sitting duck. The trunk of Barry's car was filled with boxes of documents which the FBI quickly seized, not even allowing the police whose jurisdiction it was to get anywhere near the car until it had been emptied by the FBI. Those boxes of ducuments, needless to say, were never seen again. I don't know about the rest of you folks, but I'm getting tired of every Presidential election coming down to a choice of just which CIA drug runner gets the oval office. The ballot box isn't working any more when we cannot keep drug criminals out of our White House. The crooks in congress KNOW that, which is why they are working so hard to grab the ammo boxes before the rest of America realizes that the only way to get the druggies out of the government is to force them out. 103 Posted on 08/06/1999 09:05:47 PDT by Michael Rivero [ Reply | To 1 | Top | Last ] ===== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched." -- George Bush, cited in the June, 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter George Bush with legendary CIA agent Felix Rodriguez a.k.a. "Mr. Gomez" who ran the Mexican portion of the Iran-Contra guns and drug running operation. "I have put thousands of Americans away for tens of thousands of years for less evidence for conspiracy with less evidence than is available against Ollie North and CIA people. . . . I personally was involved in a deep-cover case that went to the top of the drug world in three countries. The CIA killed it." Former DEA Agent Michael Levine CNBC-TV, October 8, 1996 "The connections piled up quickly. Contra planes flew north to the U.S., loaded with cocaine, then returned laden with cash. All under the protective umbrella of the United States Government. My informants were perfectly placed: one worked with the Contra pilots at their base, while another moved easily among the Salvadoran military officials who protected the resupply operation. They fed me the names of Contra pilots. Again and again, those names showed up in the DEA database as documented drug traffickers. "When I pursued the case, my superiors quietly and firmly advised me to move on to other investigations." Former DEA Agent Celerino Castillo Powder Burns, 1992 "The Subcommittee found that the Contra drug links included: Involvement in narcotics trafficking by individuals associated with the Contra movement. Participation of narcotics traffickers in Contra supply operations through business relationships with Contra organizations. Provision of assistance to the Contras by narcotics traffickers, including cash, weapons, planes, pilots, air supply services and other materials, on a voluntary basis by the traffickers. Payments to drug traffickers by the U.S. State Department of funds authorized by the Congress for humanitarian assistance to the Contras, in some cases after the traffickers had been indicted by federal law enforcement agencies on drug charges, in others while traffickers were under active investigation by these same agencies." Senate Committee Report on Drugs, Law Enforcement and Foreign Policy chaired by Senator John F. Kerry "I really take great exception to the fact that 1,000 kilos came in, funded by U.S. taxpayer money." DEA official Anabelle Grimm, during a 1993 interview on a CBS-TV "60 Minutes" segment entitled "The CIA's Cocaine." The 1991 CIA drug-smuggling event Ms. Grimm described was later found to be much larger. A Florida grand jury and the Wall Street Journal reported it to involve as much as 22 tons. 105 Posted on 08/06/1999 09:25:26 PDT by Michael Rivero ===== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Michael Rivero Your facts about the murder of Barry Seal are lacking in some areas. Barry Seal was sentenced by Federal Judge Frank Polazola to live in the Salvation Army halfway house in Baton Rouge,La while other Louisiana charges were handled. Barry had taken to running around Baton Rouge and south Louisiana against the judge's orders with armed body guards. A convicted felon is not allowed to be in even constructive posession of a firearm,which means having someone at your hire or request to carry the gun. The Federal government had tried to get Barry to enter the Federal Witness Program where he would be safe. Barry thought he was bulletproof and rumors had gotten back to the court that he was back in the drug business in Louisiana. Faced with his flat refusal to allow the US Marshals to move him and his family to a safe location and not wanting an armed drug dealer back on the street the judge ordered him to the halfway house. In a way you might say Barry Seal helped in his own murder by refusing to allow the Marshals to protect him. The only other choice was jail but he had made a deal that carried no jail time. The judge order that none of Barry's bodyguards could be around him. If he was trying to force Barry into the WPP I don't know but whatever his reasons it was a mistake and not a conspiracy. The reason the FBI investigated was simple Barry seal was a Federal Protected Witness(not too well at that) and was at a halfway house that was used for Federal Inmates as well as some state inmates. The 4 hit men were all caught within 18 hours 3 in the New Orleans area and one lost on a country road and sentenced to life in prison. Two are serving Federal time and one is serving state time, one died or was killed in prison. None of the hit men could speak english nor even knew who Barry Seal was. They told the court they did the job on orders to protect thier families and so the families would have money to get by on. BTW all 4 crossed the Rio Grande as with other illegals. 108 Posted on 08/06/1999 10:04:02 PDT by Big Ezy [ Reply | To 103 | Top | Last ] ===== To: Ticonderoga George W. Bush has filed suit against that site for publishing blatent lies. He stated: "There ought to be limits to freedom. We're aware of this site, and this guy is just a garbage man, that's all he is." -- George Jr., discussing a web site that parodies him. Here are more details on the suit: Bush criticizes Web site as malicious This also clears up the oft misquoted "There ought to be limits to freedom" line that people love to spew out of context. I suggest you quit spreading disinformation on this site. To clear up the question of this thread, I offer the following: "[Bush Jr. hired a private detective to] determine what his opponents or the press could find on him [and] isn't terribly thrilled [with the results.] We're not talking about anything that would get him a spot on Jerry Springer, no handcuffs or dwarf orgies, but he was a handsome, rich playboy and lived that life." -- unnamed insider, quoted on MSNBC. Besides, Ann Richards dug long and hard and could find nothing substantial, only rumors and innuendo during the campaign for Governor -- if anyone could find something, she could. So I believe that this is more of the same. Also, George Bush Jr. makes a big point of travelling around the country and lecturing students on staying celibate, sober and drug free. 120 Posted on 08/06/1999 11:13:01 PDT by ravingnutter [ Reply | To 42 | Top | Last ] ===== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: MichaelP What a bunch of gullible idiots! Indeed. There's an old Scottish saying: "you hire a guard, you hire a thief". We've had 90 years of drug prohibition, which, in this regard, makes our governing institutions just as vulnerable as alcohol prohibition made them. We dropped alcohol prohibition, in no small measure, out of fear that in another 10 years, Al Capone would have owned our president. There is, despite the squawking of the uninformed here, between congressional reports, and the Hitz report on the CIA web site, no doubt whatsoever about the widespread connivance of the CIA in drug running. And, on the record, no doubt that Dubya is a useless, vindictive ex-playboy whose buddies dealt drugs and whose money is derived from "deals" that have the same stink of business acumen as Hillary's expertise in cattle future trading. But, please, jam your heads a little harder into the sand, I'm sure the GOP appreciates your continuing inability to notice that they are the conservative branch of the demopublican narco party. Why do you think the opposition party whip was allowed to decide what impeachment evidence would be heard? Why do you think that, with filegate, cattlegate, and travelgate on the agenda, the congress is confronted with M. Lewinski and the sex follies? Why do you think the President can continue this outrageous stream of extra-constitional wars and EO's without hardly a squawk from the republican-majority congress? What astonishes me, is the depth of denial this subject invokes. What do you think drug kingpins do with their extra money? They bribe and intimidate politicians. And which politicians do you suppose they prefer to bribe? Building inspectors? What do you think will be the result after 90 years of this? What you should be astonished at is the idea that, at this late date, there should be any presidential politicians left that don't belong to drug lords. 121 Posted on 08/06/1999 11:15:37 PDT by donh [ Reply | To 107 | Top | Last ] ===== To: metalbird1 The owner of the company Brodix Manufacturing Inc., J.V. Brotherton, had sued Terry Reed for libel after Reed had tied Brodix to clandestine arms manufacturing in his book "Compromised." Well, the suit had been scheduled to start last week, but Reed and Brotherton settled out of court Thursday night. Randel Miller, Reed's attorney, told the Arkansas Democrat- Gazette that Brotherton and Reed have agreed to a "non-financial settlement" in which Reed has signed an affidavit outlining implications he says the book never intended concerning Brotherton and his company. Published in the August 12, 1996 Issue of The Washington Weekly Yup, that's some credible source you have there -- he's already been sued for libel once, LOL! 134 Posted on 08/06/1999 11:51:56 PDT by ravingnutter ===== To: ravingnutter The owner of the company Brodix Manufacturing Inc., J.V. Brotherton, had sued Terry Reed for libel after Reed had tied Brodix to clandestine arms manufacturing in his book "Compromised." Well, the suit had been scheduled to start last week, but Reed and Brotherton settled out of court Thursday night. Randel Miller, Reed's attorney, told the Arkansas Democrat- Gazette that Brotherton and Reed have agreed to a "non-financial settlement" in which Reed has signed an affidavit outlining implications he says the book never intended concerning Brotherton and his company. I guarantee you, nutter, that a lot of what the affidavit says hinges on the word "clandestine", and other specifics. I will also guarantee you that the affidavit does NOT say that the parts were NOT manufactured there. Finally, I guarantee you that the out-of-court, non-financial settlement was pursued by Mr. Brotherton and Brodix Manufacturing, not by Mr. Reed, who has been trying to get INTO court for a long, long time. FROM A PREVIOUS POST "There was no information developed indicating any U.S. government agency or organization condoned drug trafficking by the Contras or anyone else." "Contra leaders have been interviewed and their bank records examined. . . . Examination of Contra financial records, private enterprise business records and income tax returns of several individuals failed to locate any indication of drug trafficking." Wow, nutter, let me see if I have this straight: the CIA got to investigate itself and a client, and found that neither the CIA nor the client had done anything wrong. You know, you could cross out the word "Contra" above, and write in "Whitewater Development", and you'd have the equally-official findings on THAT matter, which I'm certain that you ALSO believe (NOT). What a meathead you are, an absolute meathead. 139 Posted on 08/06/1999 12:07:39 PDT by Boblemagne ===== To: dirtboy Look at all the allegations about Clinton's coke use - the coke came from others, such as Sharlene Wilson and Dan Lasiter and Roger Clinton. Two kilos? Too risky - way to risky for a player to get it themselves. If you're powerful or have money or a famous name, there are plenty of toadies and wannabees in the world who will be glad to get it for you. You're entitled to your opinion, but to me this story doesn't make sense. Again, look at the result: Clinton's way - everyone around you knows, because they're "catering", lots of people snitch on you. Bush bro's way - no one CAN snitch on you. Nobody knew except some of Papa's pocket pals, it just turns out that one of them went rogue. Still, no problemo, just smear him, attempt to have him killed, bankrupt him, ruin his career. So, now, WHICH one do think had the better plan? I can't spell it out any better for you. Sure, everyone knows about Clinton, yet, you're using that as an argument AGAINST it having gone dowm as reported re: the Bush Boys? Serious disconnect somewhere in your reasoning. 150 Posted on 08/06/1999 12:43:59 PDT by Boblemagne ===== To: dirtboy No, I won't dodge responding. Instead of something double-oh-seven or tricky, let's go for the mundane. Sometimes the simplest is the correct. Maybe the Bush boys wanted to take the family plane out for a ride... Maybe Reed didn't know in advance who was coming in for the 'buy', but the Bush Boys had to have known whom they were buying it from--and believed it was someone they could trust. [In reading "Compromised" you get a pretty fair picture of Seal, that he liked to pull surprises sometimes. Reference the part in the book where Seal is with Reed driving down the road and pulls over. Reed doesn't know why. Then there appears a car on the other side of the road, which stops. The guy in the car walks over and Seal hands him a paper bag. Afterward, Reed asks him what that was all about. Seal says he just made a payment to a fed who provides him information. Seal played everyone off each other.] So: What am I saying? Reed didn't know at the time who was coming for the 'buy' because Seal didn't tell him; another one of Seal's pranks, so to speak. On top of it, Seal was quite the character. His very attractive wife to this day says no one can replace him. My point: The Bush Boys went ahead and got it themselves from someone not only they believed they could trust, but also used it to touch base with an old friend, a guy who went for all the gusto-- enough so that there was a feature movie made about his life. 153 Posted on 08/06/1999 12:57:24 PDT by metalbird1 ===== To: Adroit Metalbird1 has posted several articles and attempted to pass them off as legitimate. The articles author is a con-man known as Gunther Russbacher. According to many articles Gunther may be delusional as well as a con-man. He always claims to have "inside" information that is sourced from his undercover work for the CIA. The below noted was a response that exposed Gunther as a fraud and makes you wonder why mentalbird1 would repeatedly post articles of a known con-man. To: metalbird1 Gunther Russbacher... read 'em and weep: Chicago Tribune March 17, 1992 A pro con. With a uniform and a line, Gunther Russbacher eased his way into the confidence of military and law enforcement officials. He carried himself with the imperious bearing of a military officer. He talked like a man who humbled enlisted men for sport. Gunther Russbacher looked the part of a Navy captain when his Learjet landed at Crow's Landing Naval Air Station in California in the summer of 1990. When asked to log his phone calls, he signed "Capt. Gunther Russbacher." Forty minutes after landing, he was in the air again. A few days later, wearing a Navy captain's white uniform, he drove to Castle Air Force base, an arm of the Strategic Air Command, in Atwater, Calif., bluffed his way past the guard and secured VIP lodging. No one tried to stop him at either base - even though the insignia on his uniform were upside down. It has been a long run for Gunther Karl Russbacher, 47, an Austrian citizen - apparently - who has lived a life of intrigue, deception and crime and served little time for it. What sets the balding, steely-eyed Russbacher apart from run-of-the-mill con men is the ease with which he gained access to guarded military facilities and gained the confidence of law enforcement officials. It finally came crashing down on him last month in a St. Charles County, Mo., courtroom when his probation was revoked and he was sentenced to 21 years in prison for one of the lesser of his masterful cons: stealing money from people while posing as a stockbroker. He also has posed as an Army captain, an Air Force officer, an Air France pilot and a federal prosecutor. And these are merely the scams that authorities have caught him doing during the last three decades. In addition to talking his way onto military bases, he apparently has persuaded government workers to give him blank vouchers, then passed himself off as a secret agent with the authority to charter learjets. He has convinced the FBI he was a valuable informant, and he once faked a heart attack at the Immigration and Naturalization Service office in St. Louis when he feared deportation. As he was being sentenced, his wife, Raye, insisted that Russbacher is actually a deep-cover CIA operative whom the government is trying to suppress because he piloted a flight that carried George Bush to meet with Iranians in 1980 to delay release of the U.S. hostages in Tehran - the so-called October Surprise. Raye Russbacher, who has written a proposal for a tell-all book called "I Call It Treason," has absolute confidence in her husband. She testified in court that Russbacher introduced her to former CIA Director William Webster at Offut Air Force Base in Nebraska, another of the military facilities where Russbacher gained access and slept in a bed reserved for VIPs. He also has used a variety of names over the years, including that of Bobby Ray Inman, a retired admiral who was former head of the super-secret National Security Agency and deputy director of the CIA. Investigators say Russbacher is brilliant, cunning, engaging and persistent. They say he is adept at taking public facts and marketing them as original information, which he spins into tales of intrigue and suspense that sound just authoritative enough to be credible. It's almost uncanny, they say, how he can pick out a topic that interests law enforcement agents, such as organized crime or drug trafficking, and pass himself off as an expert. All this may explain why prison officials denied requests to arrange an interview with Russbacher himself. "He's polished. He's smooth," said one FBI agent who has tracked him for three years. "He can give you the impression that he can do you a lot of good." Contradictions about him abound, beginning with his birth. When asked for his birthdate, both the FBI and the INS replied, "He has several." Authorities believe he was born in Salzburg, Austria, either on July 1, 1944, or on Jan. 22, 1945. He has told authorities his mother married a U.S. serviceman after World War II. He apparently moved to the U.S. when he was about 12. He lived in Oklahoma for a time, and his first recorded brush with the police, according to the FBI, was on Sept. 18, 1961, when he was charged with disorderly conduct and writing bad checks. The charges were dismissed. Records indicated he also was investigated for impersonating an Air Force officer. The next month, he enlisted in the U.S. Army and was assigned to Ft. Carson, Colo. On Aug. 15, 1962, after being reported AWOL, he was charged with impersonating an officer by wearing a captain's uniform and was sentenced to two months' hard labor. By October of that year, he was AWOL again. He left the Army on Oct. 1, 1963. Just four months later, he was sentenced to one year in an Oklahoma state prison for writing bad checks, and on Nov. 21, 1965, he was charged with trying to impersonate a U.S. marshal in Dallas. That charge was dismissed. Back in jail On Dec. 3, 1973, he was sentenced in New Orleans in connection with impersonating an Air Force major and was placed on probation. Within two months, he had violated the terms of his probation and was returned to jail. Apparently he served little, if any, time in New Orleans: on May 18, 1974, he was sentenced to five years in prison in texarkana, Texas, on charges of securities fraud and impersonation. After his Texas prison term, he moved to Missouri and, on Oct. 5, 1986, was charged with stealing by deception, violating his probation. He was sent to a federal prison in Minnesota, according to the FBI. On his release, he returned to Missouri and opened a firm called National Brokerage Co. in St. Charles. The company's letterhead listed him as chairman, using the alias Emery Peden, and said he held an MBA degree. During this period, Russbacher started calling the St. Louis FBI office, telling them he had valuable information. Russbacher said he would provide information about drug trafficking if the FBI helped him with some immigration problems. The FBI acknowledges paying him as an informant for a short time, but said it did nothing to help him with the INS. Payment stopped when agents determined that his information was useless. He also successfully impersonated a commercial airline pilot, at least twice, in the summer of 1986. Wearing an Air France pilot's uniform, and using a homemade identification card, Russbacher persuaded Trans World Airlines captains to approve him as an additional crew member, allowing him to fly in the cockpit. He was arrested trying to pull the same stunt on a Southwest Airlines flight. Philip Groenweghe, a St. Charles County assistant state's attorney, said that in his work as a stockbroker, Russbacher bilked clients out of thousands of dollars for services he never provided. He was found guilty in 1990 and sentenced to 21 years in prison, but he was placed on probation and ordered to pay restitution. The money would come, he told the court, from a $150,000 contract to write a screenplay about his life story. VIP treatment Then, according to the public record, his odyssey took its most dramatic turn. With his wife, Russbacher drove to the gates of Offut Air Force base, headquarters of the Strategic Air Command, on July 19, 1990. Russbacher, posing as a Navy captain, had called ahead to make a reservation. He and his wife were given two keys to Room 3208 in the VIP headquarters. He also obtained a visitor's pass and passes for his car. They stayed four nights. His wife testified (her testimony later was stricken by the judge in St. Charles as irrelevant) that she and her husband talked with then-CIA Director William Webster at the officers' club. Her story has never been corroborated, and a spokesman at Offut said there is no record of Webster visiting the base. >From Offut they traveled to Reno, where Russbacher picked up a military uniform from a surplus store. He also procured blank government vouchers from the federal Bureau of Land Management office there, which he later used to contract for charter service on the Learjets. "They just handed them over to him," said Special Agent Terry Scott of the FBI's Sacramento office. According to relatives of Raye Russbacher, who has not been charged with any wrongdoing, the couple came to visit them in California's Central Valley, but because of a family problem, they needed to leave quickly for Seattle. As relative Carole Barry recalls it, Russbacher said he could command a plane at once - and he did, convincing a charter service that he was a federal prosecutor on a secret mission. On July 27, 1990, Russbacher, again in a Learjet, arrived at Crow's Landing Naval Air Station near the home of his wife's relatives. Apparently, his only interest in landing there was that it was the closest airfield. Lt. Cmdr. William Carpenter, who was not on the base at the time, said Russbacher appeared to be flying legitimately in a government-contract plane. Lower-level officers did not confront him. "If you realize you are dealing with a captain," he said, "it's so many grades removed, it would be like asking a congressman for ID. (But) they probably should have." On July 30, he drove to the gates of Castle Air Force Base, wearing a Navy captain's whites, with a military decal on his car. He and his wife were issued keys for VIP quarters. "He claimed to be a Navy captain," said Lt. Todd Vician, a public affairs officer at Castle, but his insignia were on upside-down. Meanwhile, the FBI's Scott, with help from Barry and other relatives, had pieced together at least a portion of Russbacher's remarkable travels. On July 31, in the VIP room at Castle, Scott arrested Russbacher on charges of impersonating a federal prosecutor. Russbacher was sentenced to 15 to 20 months in federal prison. "They (the Air Force) realized it was pretty lax of them because of not wanting to ruffle feathers," Scott said. After his federal prison term, Russbacher was returned to St. Charles. His probation finally was revoked and he was committed to the Missouri prison system for 21 years. A CIA connection? To Raye Russbacher, the fact that her husband was twice admitted to secure military installations merely bolsters her story that he was a deep cover CIA officer whose deeds were so politically combustible that he had to be completely discredited. "The only way people can dismiss it is to say that we are absolute liars," Raye Russbacher said. Is he CIA? David Whipple, executive director of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers, says: "It's not a bad cover, because it's very difficult to verify. If you say you are CIA and the CIA says nothing, it rather sustains the legend." However, he said he didn't recognize Russbacher's name. Harry Reeves of the Naval Investigative Service calls it "absolutely ludicrous." The FBI's Scott says: "He's a con man from the word go." Says Groenweghe, the prosecutor: "I can't prove or disprove his involvement with the CIA. (But) I would be amazed the CIA would use someone with his record and psychological profile. You can't believe anything he tells you. He's a liar." > 22 Posted on 07/05/1999 16:02:10 PDT by Nick Danger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > [ Reply | To 1 | Top | Last ] 161 Posted on 08/06/1999 13:27:29 PDT by seattlesue ===== To: Chapita Re: Bear Bottoms. Even people who know/knew the right people or did the right things at some time in the past can be turned. I have no inside info, but way back in late '96 when I first got on the web, I used to lurk at altcurrenteventswhitewater or whatever it was. I couldn't keep going there because it degenerated into almost constant personal attacks and disruptions. One of the ongoing feuds was between Bear Bottoms and Michael Rivero. What I remember very well was BB quoting Russell and making his works sound one way. Then Michael would come back and post the WHOLE quote which came out 180 different from the way BB was trying to aim it. I used to wish Russell would come on and straighten it out but he never did while I was around. Everybody seems to respect him. Anyway, when I can't prove or disprove somebody's integrity/accuracy by my own knowledge, I judge them on how they argue their points. If they try to get the whole truth out even when it's uncomfortable, I tend to believe them. If they obfuscate, misquote and misrepresent, I tend to disbelieve them. IMO, from what I read, BB did exactly that. In fact, his crooked attacks tended to make me believe Reed and Rivero more so rather than less so. OTOH, I don't have any personal contact on those guys and I could be wrong. 281 Posted on 08/08/1999 13:13:43 PDT by Sal [ Reply | To 250 | Top | Last ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: metalbird1 Soooooooo...there's a movie in the works, huh? Who's the producer, Oliver Stone? 282 Posted on 08/08/1999 13:21:51 PDT by blake6900 [ Reply | To 1 | Top | Last ] [ Refresh | Top | Last | Latest Posts | Latest Articles | Post | Abuse | Help! ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FreeRepublic , LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 Forum Version 2.0a Copyright © 1999 Free Republic, LLC ----- Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. 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