-Caveat Lector-
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> In a message dated 99-08-15 17:43:17 EDT, Ric Carter writes:
>
> << But
> when people define socialism/communism as being ANY community/gov't
> intrusion in economic activity, they're just plain wrong. Bother. >>
>
> In socialism/communism government owns the means of production, if that
> isn't intrusion in economic activity ... What IS? If you choose to
> answer, please use common english rather than riddles.
Answers are less important than questions, so I like to ask questions.
How do you define socialism and communism, and distinguish between them?
If they're the same, do you mind if I use RED to mean social/commun-istic?
Does "means of production" include education? If so, then are public
schools inherently RED? If US public schools over the last couple of
centuries trained a workforce that consistently out-produces and out-
designs the rest of the world, is US world dominance a RED trick?
Does "means of production" include highways and other communications
infrastructure? If so, then are non-private networks of roads, wires,
etc. RED? Are the gov't -built road nets in the US, and the tremendous
economic traffic they carry, all RED tricks? Are gov't-run postal
communications a RED trick? Was Benjamin Franklin a commie?
Does "means of production" include providing medical, health, sanitation
services? Are gov't-run hospitals, clinics, pest-abatement programs,
garbage haulers, water suppliers, health/safety monitoring, food & drug
inspections, all RED tricks? Were all US Surgeons General commies?
OK, here's a view: People gather in all sorts of combinations to
perform actions they can't do by themselves. They organize groups
that may last briefly or for a long time. They charter/incorporate
organizations for purposes that benefit more than a single individual.
Such corporations may be commercial, hoping for monetary profits; or
non-commercial, hoping for social benefits; or governmental, hoping
to regularize the interactions between individuals and groups and
organizations. Commercial & non-commercial groups [which I'll refer
to here as Non-Gov't Orgs, NGOs] are chartered under the laws of the
locality, state, nation in which they operate; those that don't, are
outlaws, literally. In our democratic republic, gov't is the common
expression of the will of the voting population; NGOs serve much more
limited constituencies. So NGOs exist/operate under rules created/
enforced by representatives of the electorate.
Is it gov't intrusion for the electorate to want health/safety laws?
Is it gov't intrusion for the electorate to want certain standards of
behavior, like criminalizing assault, battery, murder, theft, fraud?
Is it gov't intrusion for the electorate to want NGOs to be accountable
for their activities, activities that affect the economic and social
and physical health of the populace?
Is it gov't intrusion for the electorate to want industries to NOT
pollute air/land/water, to want NGOs to NOT hand out bribes, to want
groups to NOT discriminate on the basis of gender, ethnicity, belief?
OK, here's another view: I am suspicious of those why decry gov't
intrusion. I suspect they wish to do things that will gain benefits
for themselves while injuring the economic, social and/or physical
health of many others. I suspect the self-serving, the demagogues,
the frenzy-wallahs who try to polarize the populace. I also suspect
the intellectually lazy who label whatever they don't like "communist".
But normally I'm pretty easy-going.
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