>>>>What you and your other 'true believers' don't seem to get is that
people like
Nessie, myself, and others who question the unwavering "ETs are flying the
UFOs"
party line don't necessarily REJECT the ET hypothesis...but that we
recognize
that there is no EVIDENCE for the ET hypothesis, and that other explanations
could just as well suffice.
You, on the other hand, dogmatically adhere to "ETs are here" line, and
refuse
to consider any other explanation. <<<<
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] YOU GO, GIRL!!! [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
eagle 1
http://www.paradise-web.com/plus_le/plus.mirage?who=k2
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] UFO EVIDENCE:
> From: "Nicky Molloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sorry June its pointless talking further, eg how do we know you aren't a
CIA
> > agent? It obvious if you were you may know more for a start on this
subject
> > instead of turning this into a psychological exercise in belief
systems..
>
> But how would you know whether I am or am not a CIA agent? And that
perhaps
> I'm an agent with an agenda?
>
> Or just a regular Jane Doe with an agenda, which I help further by
CLAIMING
> I am a CIA agent, when in fact I am not?
>
> You don't. You just accept at face value, with no research or critical
> analysis, anybody's claim that parallels your own entrenched belief
system.
>
> And THAT, dear lady, is dogma...
>
>
> > As for you saying I have dogma. All I said is I'm a Christian and
> > nothing else, the rest is your 'belief system' you so gladly promote.
>
> Dogma comes in many flavors. Some of it comes dressed as traditional,
> mainstream religiosity. Still other comes cloaked as a belief in ETs,
> when there is no EVIDENCE for the existence of ETs.
>
>
> > Nessie do you think some theorists like M Persinger have any more value
than
> > those who have personally experienced Ets? Why trust anybody who is
sitting
> > reading books on this subject and comparing an abductee experience to an
> > induced one. Sure listen to the guy but he knows no more about the
'reality'
> > of it than June who hasn't read much at all on this.
>
> Bulloney. I have 4 decades of reading on the subject. Readings
encompassing
> ALL theories, unlike you who put on blinders and refuse to consider
anything
> except your own dogma.
>
> There is not one obstensible 'abductee' who has ever provided hard
evidence
> that what they experienced was due to the actions of beings who flew to
Earth
> in a spaceship from some other physical place in the universe.
>
> That is not to say that those who claim to have been abducted are lying,
or
> are hallucinating. I'm prepared to accept that the majority had SOMETHING
> happen to them. But there is no EVIDENCE that it was ET instigated...only
> that what they remember afterwards includes a supposed ET scenario.
>
> Memories can be implanted. There could be a very mundane, earthly agency
> afoot with these abductions, and agency that is utilizing false ET
scenarios
> to cover their tracks, and perhaps achieve their own agenda.
>
> Again, testimony by any number of people claiming to have been abducted by
> space beings is not EVIDENCE that ETs exist.
>
>
>
> > But we do 'believe'
> > from others who have seen throught he deception that the US military are
> > faking alien abductions so they can abduct people. But there are geniune
> > abductions because people ahve travelled in spaceships and gone to other
> > planets and brought back souvenirs.
>
> No, certain people have thoughts, which they interpret as memories, that
> seemed to encompass travel in a spaceship, when in fact it could be mind
> control and/or implanted false memory.
>
> Two cases in point:
>
> The first entails what was one of the first cases of 'alien encounter' and
> possible abduction, which occurred somewhere in South America in the late
> 1950s or early 1960s (it's been over 2 decades since I read about this, so
> I don't remember the exact country -- it may have been Brazil, or perhaps
> Venezuela)...
>
> A man was traveling from a distant town to his home town at night (this
> now is such a common scenario it seems cliche'd, but at the time this was
> a new phenomenom)...saw a strange light in the sky, next thing he knew he
> was farther down the road than where he remembered, had an hour or so of
> missing time, etc. etc.
>
> He had no memory of what happened during the missing time, but was very
> nervous, to the point that he became ill. When he finally sought medical
> help (his ailment was psychologically based, not due to any 'implant'),
> he began to 'spontaneously remember' what had happened to him during that
> missing time....
>
> It was the typical scenario...the light came down, of course it was a
> spaceship...his car engine 'mysteriously' died, he got out of the car
> to see better, got met by space aliens and brought on board their ship
> where they did any number of terrible experiments on him, only relieved
> by a sexy, buxom blonde coming in at the end and having sex with him (he
> claimed they forced him to have an erection)...
>
> This was roundly reported in all the UFO and 'strange events' publications
> of the day...probably even got printed up in a book or two as 'proof' that
> ETs were coming here and doing things to us...
>
> But then another gentleman came forward...
>
> Seems he was an acquaintance of the first gentleman...not close
acquaintances,
> but they knew each other in passing, and more importantly the 2nd guy knew
> the vehicle the 1st guy drove...
>
> And seems the 2nd guy was driving that same road that same
night...remembered
> the 1st guy passing him on the road...the 2nd guy was driving somewhat
slower,
> plus had to stop for gas...so he was a couple of miles behind the 1st
guy...
>
> The 2nd guy never saw any strange light in the sky...he DID see a strange
> glow of lights ahead on the highway, and slowed down to see what was going
> on (he at first thought there was an accident)...
>
> What the 2nd guy claimed to have come upon were 2 or 3 tractor trailers
pulled
> off on the shoulder, along with a few military vehicles. He reported the
area
> was flooded with klieg lights, and he heard a generator in one of the
trucks
> which presumably was powering the lights.
>
> A lot of men -- all of them human -- wearing the uniform of the military
of
> that country, were milling about, and the man saw his acquaintance -- the
1st
> gentleman who later claimed to remember being abducted by space aliens --
> just standing straight, with his arms at his sides and staring ahead with
a
> glassy stare, as if in a trance...
>
> When the 2nd guy got out of his car and called to his acquaintance, the
1st
> guy showed no signs of hearing him. Then the 2nd guy got surrounded by
the
> military guys, escorted to another area away from his acquaintance, and
told
> to go on his way and not talk about what he had seen, since it involved
> "matters of national security".
>
> So the 2nd guy went on his way and thought little more of it, until he
started
> reading about the 1st guy claiming to have been abducted by space aliens
that
> night, when he decided that what he had seen couldn't be such a 'matter of
> national security' if the 1st guy was getting published in international
press...
>
> Now, which of the men is telling the truth?
>
> Both are, probably...the truth as they know it. But what is the EVIDENCE
for
> the validity of either man's statement of what happened that evening? Not
> much, if any...for either story. So what we have left are our own
critical
> facilities, to objectively analyze both stories. And if we are both
> objective AND critical, the 2nd guy's version is more believable than the
> 1st guy's.
>
> Perhaps the 2nd guy is really a disinformationalist, and his goal was to
> cast doubts on the 1st guy's story. Possibly. But the 2nd guy was just
> a regular schmuck...worked as a car mechanic or something. He wasn't any
> one high up in society, had no obvious ties to the military...so it would
> seem he wasn't an agent working for the military. He was given a lie
> detector test, which showed that he was telling the truth as he perceived
> it.
>
> The first guy also passed a lie detector test.
>
> Again, we have a case of both men telling the truth as they perceived
it...
> but we have no EVIDENCE for the validity of either man's claim.
>
> ======================================
>
> Second case:
>
> I remember reading about this in some UFO magazine back in the 80s...
>
> Seems there was a woman in the Australian outback who claimed to not only
> be abducted by ETs on a routine basis, but that she could PREDICT when her
> next encounter and abduction would occur...
>
> This woman gave very detailed accounts of what happened to her on board
> the spaceship, even remembering in detail the conversations she had with
> the ETs...
>
> She passed a lie detector test, too...
>
> This was too good to pass up, so a pair of researchers in the UFO field
> went to Australia and visited with the woman, and arranged to take her
> out to 'the pick up point' on the nights she said she knew an abduction
> would take place...
>
> The 3 of them sat in the car and waited. Suddenly the woman exclaimed
> "Here they come!" and pointed to an area in the sky where she said the
> spaceship could clearly be seen.
>
> The 2 researchers saw nothing.
>
> But the woman was quite insistent that it was there, and got more
> agitated as she described it coming closer and hovering over the car...
>
> Again, the researchers saw nothing.
>
> Then the 'abductee' graphically described being levitated into the
> spacecraft, and being subjected to any number of painful procedures,
> the 'abductee' describing in detail the interior of the craft, screaming
> in pain during the painful procedures, and then afterwards described in
> detail the trip she was taken on in this craft, looking out a window and
> seeing the Earth disappearing below as the craft went on a joyride of
> the Milky Way...
>
> All the while, the 2 researchers were sitting next to her in their car,
> as this 'abductee' recounted her abduction experience. At the end, when
> the woman reported being returned to the car, she swore she had really,
> PHYSICALLY been abducted, and wouldn't believe the researchers when they
> told her she had never left the car.
>
> Now, this supposed 'abductee' passed every lie detector test she was
> given. She was telling the truth AS SHE PERCEIVED IT. But her truth
> was not the objective truth. The objective truth is that she never
> left the car, and experienced something that was purely mental and
> emotional in nature, not physical.
>
> One could argue that the ETs were manipulating her mind. Perhaps, but
> I would put that at the bottom of the list of possibilities. Excluding
> the possibility that this woman is insane, I would look to a purely
> Earthly agency as the source of her hallucination.
>
> The article pointed out that the favorite 'abduction point' for this
> woman was only a few miles away from a top secret U.S. military post
> (yes, in Australia)...
>
> I'm sure the dogmatic 'true believers' will argue that the top secret
> U.S. military base in Australia is hiding thousands of ETs in its
> underground tunnels.
>
> I tend to believe that whatever involvement the military has is instead
> solely involved with mind control and implanting false memories....to
> achieve a certain agenda, an agenda which is furthered by encouraging a
> "spacemen are not only coming here, but abducting us and doing terrible
> things to us" scenario...
>
> =============================
>
> NO ONE has brought back 'evidence' from a supposed abduction. They have
> brought back mental images they interpret as memories, and perhaps an
> artifact....and not one artifact has stood up to extensive tests, every
> single one, when thoroughly tested, could have been manufactured right
> here on Earth.
>
> Sorry, but there are NO 'souvenirs' which stand up to extensive scrutiny.
>
>
>
> > Reasons being-
> > 1 They have read too many books including disinfo so can't decide truth.
>
> Or as in your case, too little, and only those publications which further
your
> own dogma....
>
>
> > 2.They have had drugs and think reality can't be deciphered properly
because
> > they can't remember what it is like to have a clear mind anymore, so
think
> > everyone else is as confused.
>
> Drugs don't have to have anything to do with it. The public's perception
and
> attitude is manipulated daily by the mainstream media. "Reality" is what
those
> who control the information make it. It takes a strong intellect, and a
> willingness to forego dogma, to begin to see through the 'reality' that
the
> controllers construct for us.
>
> What you and your other 'true believers' don't seem to get is that people
like
> Nessie, myself, and others who question the unwavering "ETs are flying the
UFOs"
> party line don't necessarily REJECT the ET hypothesis...but that we
recognize
> that there is no EVIDENCE for the ET hypothesis, and that other
explanations
> could just as well suffice.
>
> You, on the other hand, dogmatically adhere to "ETs are here" line, and
refuse
> to consider any other explanation.
>
>
> > 5. They are unable to see beyond themselves to be objective about Earth
and
> > its manifold off planet guided expressions of evolution to perfection.
>
> Boy, if THAT isn't the dogma of the new religion!
>
>
> June
>
.
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