In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote: : Why truly Orthodox Jews oppose Zionism ( in both its secular and so : called "religious" forms ) and view it as heresy. : To explain why truly Orthodox Jews oppose Zionism we must first : clarify what the word Zionism actually means, we can then begin to see : why this is fundamentally opposed to to the Jewish religion. The : creator of the Zionist movement is generally considered to be Theodore : Hertzl who was a known professed atheist attempted to solve what has : come to be known as 'the Jewish problem', this means the historical : persecution of Jews in various lands in which they have lived from the : time they were exiled from the Holy Land in approximately 600BCE : ,Hertzl himself being an atheist and non-beleiver in Divine Providence : saw this problem as a purely natural problem which could be solved by : purely natural means, i.e.,the reason for persecution of Jews is that : the Jewish people is esssentially different from other peoples of the : world in that it does not possess its own land, state, government, : army, etc. The solutuion therefore, according to Hertzl was to create : a Jews to have a homeland and state etc. To religious Jews who, as has : been clarified in the previous articlebeleive in the eternity of the : divine laws and teachings of the Torah this unacceptable for 2 main : reasons. 1) the denial of Divine Providence on which Hertzl's solution : is built lies in total contradiction to the Torah and Judaism, as the : Rambam ( a Jewish philosopher and scholar who lived in the 11th : centuryCE, usually reffered to among non Jews as Maimonides ) writes : in his work on on the 13 fundamental principals of the Jewish faith, : "The First Foundation is to believe in the existence of the Creator, : blessed be He. This means that there exists a Being that is complete : in all ways and He is the cause of all else that exists. He is what : sustains their existence and the existence of all that sustains them. : It is inconceivable that He would not exist, for if He would not exist : then all else would cease to exist as well, nothing would remain". and : as he explains further any 'Jew' who denies one of these pricipals is : according to the Torah no longer considered part of the Jewish people : as he writes,"When a man believes all of these foundations and his : belief in them is clear, then he enters into the community of Israel : (i.e., the Jewish people...... [However,] if anyone does not accept : [even] one of these foundations, then he has left this community and : denied the fundamental. He is called a min and apikorus (two technical : terms for a heretic)". All Jews throughout history beleived as is : stated in the books of the prophets that our exile was divinely : decreed because we sinned as is clearly in the Torah, 2) The Talmud, : tractate Kesubos (p. 111a), on the basis of various scriptural verses : tells us that we are forbidden to use human force to bring an end to : the exile rather we must wait patiently, and remain loyal : peace-seeking citizens of the countries where we dwell until the : Messiahs coming when G-d himself will redeem us from the exile without : any human/military intervention as the Prophet tells us, "Thy sun : shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the : L-rd shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning : shall be ended.... A little one shall become a thousand, and a small : one a strong nation I the L-rd will hasten it in its time." (Isaiah : 60:20-22), of which our Sages expouned in the '"I (the L-rd)", and no : one else (Talmud), at this time there will begin an era of universal : peace between all nations when "they shall beat their swords into : plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift : up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more"(Isaiah : 2:4) and all will join together in the service of the one G-d,"For the : earth shall be full of the knowledge of the L-rd, as the waters cover : the sea"(Isaiah 11:9). The beleif in all this together with other : things which our are related in the Scriptures and writings of our : Sages about the Messianic era also form one of the 13 principles of : Jewish beleif enumerated by the great 11th century Jewish scholar : Maimonides (see above) he there explain, has as been stated above that : a 'Jew' beleiving in any one of these principles is according to the : Torah no longer considered part of the Jewish people, even though he : may be fully observant Jew in all other aspects. On the contrary : Orthodox Jews beleive that the sole remedy of the so called 'Jewish : Problem', for us is to keep the laws and teachings of the Torah and : the sole cause of it non-observance of the Torah as the Torah tells us : in many places, It should now be clear to the reader why truly : Orthodox Jews oppose Zionism, in all its forms. ven apart from the : above, the whole idea of 'Jewish Nationalism' secular or religious is : fundamentally opposed to Orthodox Judaism, as Rabbi Elchonan Wasserman : (may his memory be blessed), one of our great sages and scholars of : the pre-holocaust generation explains (in his book Ikvse D'Mshicha - : the epoch of the Messiah), a sincere convert who undergoes conversion : to Judaism according to Torah law, even if he is the grandchild of : Haman (who plotted to wipe out the Jewish people in Biblical times) is : considered a part of the Jewish people and we must care for him as a : father cares for his only son, the son of say the most respected Rabbi : among Jews, who leaves Orthodox Judaism is considered by the Torah as : an outcast from the Jewish people. We see from this that the Zionist : idea constitutes a proposed change to the whole essence of the Jewish : people, who are not a people bound together by a shared : state,land,culture, etc., the only thing binding them together is the : laws of the Torah, which was accepted as an everlasting covenant with : G-d, nothing binds the Jewish people except for this. This can also be : seen historically by the fact that even before the entry into the land : of Israel after the time of Moses our teacher and also after our exile : from the land, Jews always remained a people, bound together however : only by shared beliefs. <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! 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