With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...
Saturday July 8, 2000; 12:44 AM EDT
Susan McDougal: 'Hillary is Scary'; Starr Deputy Responsible for
Jim's Death
Hillary Clinton's former Whitewater business partner Susan
McDougal said Friday that she supports the first lady's U.S.
Senate bid because "she's a scary woman" who knows how to use
power effectively.
"I would vote for her. I don't think New York could have anyone
who is a better fighter or a stronger believer in what they are
going to do," McDougal told NewsMax.com. She made the comment
after addressing the American Bar Association's Committee on
Women in Criminal Justice in New York City.
"I mean, she's a scary woman. You should have her. She'll go
after what she believes in and I doubt that anyone could stand up
to her," added the woman whose decision not to cooperate with
prosecutors likely saved Hillary's husband from indictment.
In a no holds barred give-and-take session with NewsMax.com,
McDougal spoke out on a whole host of topics that she's never
addressed before, revealing, for instance, whether she's had any
support from Clinton moneyman, Indonesian billionaire James
Riady, as have fellow Whitewater convicts Webb Hubbell and Jim
Guy Tucker.
And for the first time ever on the record, the ex-wife of the
late Jim McDougal fingered the man whom she believes is
responsible for his 1998 death in prison.
In her prepared remarks to the ABA, McDougal described the power
attorneys have over the well-being of their jailed clients, using
her own poignant account of how Los Angeles lawyer Mark Geragos
helped her beat the rap on a Whitewater criminal contempt
citation and embezzlement charges in California in the dark days
following her initial conviction for Whitewater bank fraud.
McDougal now raises money to improve the plight of women behind
bars and, with her husband and legal advisor attorney Pat Harris,
has put together her own Whitewater book, "Not Guilty by Reason
of Insanity." The book is a lighthearted look at Susan's
Whitewater experience, Harris told NewsMax.com, and is expected
to be in bookstores in about six months.
But it was the post-speech Q & A where the stonewalling
Whitewater witness really opened up, in a wide-ranging session
attended by just a handful of reporters:
NEWSMAX: You had a lot of disparaging quotes about Hillary
Clinton, at least as reported by James Stewart in his book "Blood
Sport." You were one of his major sources for the Whitewater
story in "Blood Sport."
MCDOUGAL: I met with him for maybe thirty to forty-five minutes
total. And I ended up being a character in that book. Now, I
haven't read the book. I thought it was wrong to read books by
other people before I was questioned in the trials, because all
of that can color what you think. But when Pat read it he called
me and said, "My God, were you with the man for months? You know
this book is practically all about you." I sat with Stewart for a
while in a restaurant and that was about it.
NEWSMAX: Stewart quoted you in an anecdote about you and Mrs.
Clinton at some reception, where an Arkansas woman came up to the
two of you and presented Mrs. Clinton with a pair of hog
earrings. And Hillary was gracious as long as that person was
there but after that person walked away, according to the account
in Stewart's book, Mrs. Clinton turned to you and said, "See,
this is the kind of s - - t I have to put up with around here."
Is that an accurate anecdote?
MCDOUGAL: Yes.
NEWSMAX: What do you think of Mrs. Clinton's Senate candidacy?
MCDOUGAL: Of her Senate candidacy? Oh, I would vote for her, I
would vote for her. I don't think New York could have anyone who
is a better fighter or a stronger believer in what they are going
to do. I mean, she's a scary woman. You should have her. She'll
go after what she believes in and I doubt that anyone could stand
up to her. I wouldn't want to. I would hate to be the person on
the other side if she believes in what she's doing.
UNIDENTIFIED GUEST: What did you mean by scary?
MCDOUGAL: She's got a lot of power and she's going to go after
what she believes in. And I would vote for her in a minute. And
I've known her for years. She is a powerful woman who uses her
power for what she believes in.
But, you know, I don't think campaigning was something she
enjoyed in the early days in Arkansas. There are barbecue
chicken things and there's a lot of hugging and kissing. In
Arkansas politics, you pretty much know everybody's cousin and
their grandbabies. And it's a big hog gathering, you know. And
Hillary was not used to that. It was early in the governor's
term. It was a new world and believe me Arkansas politics is a
world of its own.
I do not blame Hillary at all for saying, I cannot put these hog
earrings on. Now, I would have put the hog earrings on and I
would have had a good time. But this was not her kind of deal.
She's a lot more intelligent than I am -- you would rather have
her (as Senator) regardless of her campaigning abilities.
NEWSMAX: The focus of your speech today was basically conditions
in prison for women. I interviewed your late husband's
biographer Curtis Wilkie and he got several accounts from fellow
inmates of your late husband. They said he was not only thrown
into solitary confinement, but that his heart medicine was
confiscated and that guards basically looked the other way as he
complained he was experienceing chest pains before he collapsed
and died in his jail cell.
I have never heard you comment publicly on whether you think this
was mistreatment by prison officials, or perhaps whether Ken
Starr should have taken better care of your husband in that
condition.....
MCDOUGAL: Jim was calling (the Independent Counsel) and begging
them to help him. But their whole deal was that if Jim cooperated
and told the lie that David Hale was telling the truth, that Jim
would go to a prison hospital, and that he would be OK. And what
he said to me was, "I'm going to do this because I don't want to
die in prison."
And I think that is the ultimate thing you can say about the
Office of Independent Counsel; they had Monica at that point. Why
did they need Jim McDougal or care what happened to him?
NEWSMAX: So you think basically that they were not paying
attention to what was happening to your late husband?
MCDOUGAL: They couldn't have cared less. None of Jim McDougal's
fantasies or story-weaving worked out for them. If it had, he
would have been in the best place they could have put him in. But
now that they had Monica and the whole sex thing, Jim McDougal
was, "so what". I mean, Jim was trying out story after story for
the Independent Counsel and they would have used any one of them
if they would have worked. But when Jim became useless, he got
put in solitary confinement and died on the cold cement floor
without his medicine, calling for help and asking the Independent
Counsel to help him.
And I told Hickman Ewing, who is (Ken) Starr's top aide in
Arkansas, I said, "You are the man responsible for the death of
Jim McDougal -- and for the corruption." I mean, Jim McDougal
was, once upon a time many years ago, an honorable man before
they corrupted him.
NEWSMAX: Are you familiar with the report in the latest
Whitewater book, "Truth at Any Cost," by Sue Schmidt and Michael
Weisskopf, where Ewing was making the decision whether to indict
Hillary. And he claimed that the biggest obstacle preventing her
indictment was the death of your late husband, because he wasn't
around anymore to corroborate testimony?
MCDOUGAL: Jim McDougal came to me and told me that the thing had
now changed; that it was no longer about Bill Clinton, that it
was about Hillary Clinton. And if I had some reason not to want
to do in Bill Clinton, couldn't I just find it in myself to
possibly do in Hillary Clinton instead. And I could find myself
free of all problems. And Hickman Ewing was Jim's contact. He
is an evil, twisted man.
He also came to me and asked if I would lie about having an
affair with Bill Clinton. He asked Jim McDougal if I would do
that. Ewing always wanted this to be a sex scandal. Even early
on I think he knew that Bill Clinton was not a thief. He was not
a financial wheeler-dealer. But they knew that they could
probably get him on some sort of sex impropriety. And Hickman
Ewing meant to do that.
NEWSMAX: Recently the Wall Street Journal has reported that James
Riady is now employing Jim Guy Tucker, who was your co-defendant
in 1996, down in Jakarta. Have you ever had any phone calls from
any Riady emissary?
MCDOUGAL: No. I have twelve dollars in the bank. I am
absolutely broke. I have no job. My parents are very sick. I
take care of them every day. And I work for women in jail, I go
and do fund-raising events for them. I have nothing. And I have
never been helped by any Clinton person or Clinton emissary.
And I didn't go to jail for that reason. I went because Kenneth
Starr was absolutely the most dishonorable, despicable person I
had ever seen in my life. And somebody needed to say "No."
=================================================================
Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT
FROM THE DESK OF: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*Mike Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
~~~~~~~~ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
Shalom, A Salaam Aleikum, and to all, A Good Day.
=================================================================
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