-Caveat Lector-
[Was "sexual preference" already a code phrase when discussing
gay vs. straight lifestyles already in 1985?]
Job Applicant Says Ashcroft Queried Him on Sexuality
By David A. Viseand Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, January 25, 2001; Page A06
A health care expert who applied for a top Cabinet post in
Missouri's government contends then-Gov. John D. Ashcroft
questioned him about his sexual orientation during a job
interview, posing the query in a way that indicated he would not
be hired if he were gay.
Such a question -- which Attorney General-designate Ashcroft said
he "cannot imagine" asking -- would not violate Missouri law,
which does not prohibit discrimination in hiring on the basis of
sexual orientation.
But it would appear to contradict testimony Ashcroft offered to
the Senate Judiciary Committee last week when he told senators
that "sexual orientation has never been something that I've used
in hiring in any of the jobs, in any of the offices, I've held.
It will not be a consideration in hiring at the Department of
Justice."
Paul Offner, a Democrat and health care policy expert who applied
in 1985 to be head of Missouri's Department of Social Services,
said he was "stunned" by the query, which he said came with no
introduction at the start of his interview. "If his position is
that this has never been an issue with him, then why did he say
it?" Offner asked in an interview. "It is hard to believe it
wasn't a [job] qualification."
The issue of Ashcroft's views on gays arose last week when he
faced strong criticism from Democrats on the Senate Judiciary
Committee, who contended he voted against James Hormel's
appointment as ambassador to Luxembourg because Hormel is openly
gay. The senators also questioned Ashcroft, during four days of
committee hearings and in some of the hundreds of written
follow-up queries they sent him, about his willingness to uphold
civil rights laws -- including those protecting gays -- if he is
confirmed as the nation's top law enforcement officer.
Mindy Tucker, a spokeswoman for Ashcroft, said yesterday that
"the senator does not recall this meeting and cannot imagine
starting a meeting with this question. He made it clear to the
committee when they asked about this issue that sexual
orientation has never been something that he has used in hiring
in any of the offices he has held, and it will not be a
consideration at the Department of Justice."
Tucker said gays worked for Ashcroft during his eight years as
governor.
Rich McClure, Ashcroft's chief of staff from late 1985 until late
1992, said he "never heard Senator Ashcroft or any of his staff
or legal counsel ask that kind of question" during job
interviews.
Offner did not get the job. He went on to serve as senior health
care adviser to the Senate Finance Committee and then tried to
help the District of Columbia reform its health care
reimbursement system before joining the faculty at Georgetown
University.
Offner said that as the 1985 meeting in Jefferson City, Mo.,
began, Ashcroft, without any introduction, looked directly at
Offner, who was single at the time, and posed the question: "Mr.
Offner, do you have the same sexual preference as most men?"
"Yes," Offner said he replied.
"Have you ever used an illegal controlled substance?" Ashcroft
asked next.
"I have not," Offner said.
Several friends and colleagues said Offner quickly told them of
the exchange with Ashcroft.
"I remember it very well," said Kathy Sykes, a staffer at the
Environmental Protection Agency and friend of Offner. "He said it
was the most unusual interview because he was specifically asked
about his sexual orientation. I was shocked, and Paul was
shocked. It just stands out. These are not normally questions you
ask in determining qualifications for jobs."
Offner said the congressional controversy surrounding Ashcroft's
stances on civil rights and gay issues prompted him to speak out
about his encounter with the former governor. He has also told
Judiciary Committee staffers about the interview.
Current law does not prohibit the federal government from
discrimination in hiring on the basis of sexual orientation.
During the last session of Congress, Ashcroft voted against
changing that law. But an executive order signed by President
Bill Clinton last year prohibits the federal government from
discriminating against gays in employment.
Offner, 58, who is now married, said Ashcroft crossed the line
with his direct question about sexual orientation. He said he
also found it odd that Ashcroft began the interview by asking
about it.
"It was just, like, zap," and he asked, Offner recalled.
According to Offner, Ashcroft told him after reviewing his file
that despite his outstanding credentials, Ashcroft could not hire
him, implying that the reason was political. "He said that his
people would not understand," Offner recalled.
A vote on Ashcroft's confirmation was postponed yesterday for a
week at the request of Democrats, who said they have not received
Ashcroft's answers to more than 360 written questions as well as
other material they have requested.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), yesterday said she will vote
against Ashcroft's confirmation, becoming the seventh Democrat to
do so. Among her reservations about Ashcroft, she said, is the
way he deals with gay people. Feinstein also said Ashcroft was
misleading in his congressional testimony last week about why he
opposed Hormel's nomination.
Feinstein noted that Ashcroft previously criticized Hormel for
being "a leader" in "promoting" a gay lifestyle.
"Yet the new John Ashcroft promises never to discriminate against
gays or lesbians for employment and said the reason for voting
against Ambassador Hormel was because he knew him personally. Mr.
Hormel called me to say that not only does he not know Mr.
Ashcroft, but that the senator had refused to meet with him prior
to confirmation."
Ashcroft testified last week that he evaluated Hormel based on
"the totality of his record" and strongly urged legislators to
vote against him because it appeared he would not represent U.S.
interests abroad well. In the past, however, he has said he
opposed Hormel's nomination because of Hormel's openly gay
lifestyle.
In a letter last week to Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman
Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah), Hormel said Ashcroft blatantly
misrepresented the nature of their relationship and contended
Ashcroft voted against him because he is gay. Hormel said
Ashcroft reached conclusions about what sort of ambassador he
would be without meeting him, without attending Senate Judiciary
Committee meetings and without submitting any written questions.
"I find it personally offensive that Mr. Ashcroft, under oath and
in response to your direct questions, would choose to misstate
the nature of our relationship, insinuate objective grounds for
voting against me and deny that his personal viewpoint about my
sexual orientation played any role in his actions," Hormel wrote
in another letter, to Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.), last week.
Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.) challenged Ashcroft over the issue
of enforcing sexual non-discrimination policies during the Senate
hearings.
"I know that you have strongly held views on gays and
homosexuality," Feingold told Ashcroft last week. "You and I have
had discussions about this and . . . you said, 'I believe the
Bible calls it a sin, and that's what defines it for me.' "
Ashcroft replied, "As attorney general, I will not make sexual
orientation a matter to be considered in hiring or firing."
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Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT
FROM THE DESK OF:
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