-Caveat Lector-
Amelia wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Well, J2, if the complaint is the beatification of Pius, then they
> should say so instead of claiming that this Pope is hiding things.
They are not saying this. I am saying this. They are historians who
were allowed to take part in a task that the Church would prefer not
to do at all but is being pressured to by Jews as well as others.
The Vatican CAN NOT beatify Pius 12 unless they can produce a clean
bill of health for him.
I speculate that they hoped by inviting a panel of Jewish historians to
take part in the whitewash, they would be able to pull it off by
controlling the access to their documents. Just as the CIA controls which
documents it allows out to the public.
I'm sure that they expected the Jewish panel to be good little boys
and girls and not complain. That was their second mistake.
> Please keep in mind that JPII IS POLISH himself and see the link
> below about how EVERY Polish Catholic Priest along with 3 million
> other Poles were sent to Death Camps. See link below for info on
> Poles sent to death camps.
I am very aware of the history. Not 'every' priest was sent to the death
camps. Some were collaborators. Most Poles were more than happy to help
the Nazis rid them if the Zhids. Even while the Germans were the occupying
enemy. The Poles were considered inferior to the Aryans and were destined
for slavery.
>
> And yes, you do so know one Catholic that knows this. And I know
> many others.
You are special. You are a member of CTRL which indicates that you have a
heightened sense of curiosity and distrust. This is healthy in my opinion,
but most people don't.
> We are talking about millions of people here and there
> are some Jewish people also implicated in various things, too. It
> is all very complex.
It's not that complex. If you've read my stuff over the years, then you
know that it's every group's minority elites who are responsible for most
the shit.
> And a Catholic is automatically excommunicated if they do certain
> things. No one has to tell them and no formal declaration is
> required unless they protest it.
The point is Amelia, that if the leader of the Catholic world, and Europe
in particular would have publicly excommunicated Hitler and the Nazi
regimes in the Catholic countries, it might have stopped them.
Not only did he not do that, but he was a supporter and admirer of Hitler.
He was the top Church official in Germany before he became Pope. He hobnobbed
with the Nazis. This is no secret. There are newspaper photos all over the
place.
> I have never checked specifically
> but believe mass murder of millions might be listed above something
> like, say, divorce. I do not, nor do you, know the details of who
> did what and why and so do not care to speculate on who gave what
> and did what.
You wouldn't need to speculate. There are books written by eyewitnesses
who worked in the Holy See and witnessed it all. Names of the carriers,
the amounts, the dates etc.
> I find a Polish Pope highly unlikely to be hiding
> things to protect the Nazis.
NOT to protect the Nazis. To protect the Church.
> Maybe he has access to things that
> exonerate Pius or explain some of his actions. But I think it is a
> dreadful thing to accuse a Polish Pope of somehow being implicated
> in or condoning the Holocaust.
I don't know if he did that or not. No one is accusing the current
Pope of that as far as I know, but he IS trying to make a saint out of
Pius12. This means that he knows what Pius did and by beatifying him, is
stating publicly that being a supporter of Hitler and what he did (not
just to Jews) was not so bad really as to prevent his beatification. This
is what makes it a public fight.
The Catholic Church would be foolish to continue with this because there is
ample evidence outside the Vatican INCLUDING living witnesses.
>
> But by your own rules of Jews only caring about other Jews, ditto
> Gypsies, etc. then Catholics should not be helping the Jews at all
> in any way.
They are not helping the Jews. They are using the Jews as a stamp of
approval. But it's not working out that way.
> That, fortunately, is not how most people feel. I am
> as outraged about the death of Jewish people and Gypsies as I am
> about Catholics.
>
> So by your standards, if they wanna see the papers, they oughta be
> nice to the Pope for why should he even care about the Jewish
> people who died.
Because he has valuable properties in Israel. And if he wants to keep
them he is forced to work things out. That's why. Also, I'm sure he
would be unhappy if the Mossad released what it has on the Catholic Church.
J2
> I think he does, however, did not expect to be
> attacked.
> ~Amelia~
>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:22 PM
> Subject: BURNING QUESTIONS, a documentary about an American woman
> retracingher Polish Catholic father's s
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/polishfilm/burningquestions.html
> Amelia wrote:
> >
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > No, J2, they were NOT all Poles and Slavs. But then no one
> counts
> > except the Jews who were killed, at least not for much to some.
> > And that may be YOUR 'real' question but it does not address what
> > is being done right NOW concerning this DEMAND for records and
> the
> > CURRENT smear campaign. Are you stating that this is justified
> as
> > some sort of vengeance? Then why was this undertaken with the
> EVIL
> > Vatican in the first place?
> >
> > I have read everything that you have stated many times before but
> > not even YOUR stating it makes me 'know' it.
>
> Amelia,
>
> I can prove everything I stated. But I don't want to deal with this
> right now
> because there are more important things happening.
>
> > I do think there is
> > some truth in what you say happened but as for your wild
> > accusations that Hitler was a Catholic, etc. that is your opinion
> > only and really not possible. He may have been reared a Catholic
> > but that does not mean me was one until his death for there are
> > conditions involved which you choose to ignore.
>
> He often bragged about his Catholic upbringing and how much it
> influenced
> his greatness.
>
> > I believe mass
> > killings would be sufficient to get one excommunicated.
>
> But he WASN'T excommunicated was he? Ever. How come?
>
> > That means
> > one is no longer a Catholic, doesn't it? I also do not think
> Hitler
> > was under the control of the Pope at the time, either.
>
> Hitler was never under the control of the Pope. No one said he was.
>
> > Are you
> > suggesting that he was? Or that the Pope had powers grater than
> all
> > the Allied forces?
>
> The Pope contributed Vatican moneys to Hitler and the Nazi Party.
> These
> are the records the Vatican doesn't want anyone to see. Among
> others.
>
> > That he could have some how stopped it all but
> > refused because he was 'in on it' and approved? As for your
> > 'revenge' philosophy, remember not all religions are centered
> > around that principle. It is well known that the Vatican was
> > involved in various people escaping Germany after WWII. What is
> to
> > hide?
>
> It is NOT well known. I don't know any Catholics who are aware of
> it.
>
> > Is this information the REAL reason for the Jewish
> > participation in this project? To find out any details on what
> may
> > have been done to any Jews and Jews only?
>
> I don't know. But even if that's true, so what?
>
> > Your comments demonstrate perfectly the one-sided perception of
> the
> > problem. It was to have been a JOINT effort directed at the
> crimes
> > committed against BOTH Catholics and Jews and others. Nothing
> was
> > being 'hidden' and I think, unlike you, that the deaths of
> > Catholics and many others were just as much a crime as the deaths
> > of Jews.
>
> Of course it is. No one says differently. Jews are interested in
> the
> Jewish part of this history. Gypsies are interested in the Gypsy
> part
> of this history. Serbs are interested in the Serbian parts of this
> history.
> This doesn't mean that the rest don't count.
>
> > The Vatican does not have to share anything and I
> > certainly hope that they will not until all life lost in the
> > Holocaust is shown equal respect.
>
> It doesn't matter what excuse you make for them not releasing the
> letters.
> They'll never do it. They can't.
>
> > It is the current Pope and not
> > Pius under attack. One Pope is as good as another to blame, eh?
> > ~Amelia~
>
> HEY BABY. THIS POPE WANTS TO MAKE A SAINT OUT OF PIUS XII THE NAZI
> POPE.
> Do you think that anyone who suffered at the hands of the Nazis is
> going
> to let the Vatican get away with beatifying Pius12?
>
> What a stupid thing to do. His actions are still in the living
> memory of
> millions of people. There are documentary records all over the
> place. There
> are living witnesses who worked in the Vatican at the time and have
> gone
> public.
>
> This wouldn't be so important if the Vatican was just trying to
> cover up
> their crimes. BUT THEY WANT TO MAKE A SAINT OUT OF HIM.
>
> This is one of the dumbest moves they ever made. They should have
> waited for
> a few more hundred years like they did for Joan of Arc.
>
> J2
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:13 PM
> >
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