-Caveat Lector- I won't argue with your parable of wheat vs. tares. What I do argue with is the CI (Christian Identity) position of people like John KK Knight being wheat while the JI (Jewish Identity) position is tares. Neither has a valid argument to present on "Right of Return" to the Holy Land. CI's dogmas are a silly broken record. They claim that JI are non-Shemite "Ashkenaz" or Shemite but Edomite Shemites rather than Jacobite Shemite and that the JI Middle East land grab is a big scam...a conspiracy. Could they do any better with 3-4,000,000 people on a new site, peaceful or otherwise? Nobody is stopping them from applying for a Bush "faith-based" grant to design a "culture of life" in USA. Faith without works is dead. Behold the magnificent works of JI in the Jerusalem region. "A light unto the nations" and the whole world rejoices, especially at UN sessions. Could CI present its "salt and light of the world" in a superior manner? We haven't seen it yet. What we see is www syndrome from KK Knight et al....whining white wussy syndrome. So they keep blaming JI for the inadequacies of CI. They aren't wheat until they prove it. POC
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, John Niemela wrote: > FOR ALL...It's not a matter of lets say you expell them from North > America...not at all...but, for sure, there is about to be a time when the > will be expelled....and more. > > One simply has to recognize that we are in that time where the Tares have > risen above the Wheat! There is no doubt about that as one simply has to > evaluate who owns the media, the poltiicians, the blinded Shepherds, the > financial structure and those who now sit in as the "rulers of the darkness > of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." > > But, then we also know this, that He will send in His angels to "cut, bundle > and burn the Tares, before the Harvest." That is before their toxic seeds > can so pollute the Wheat that it becomes noxious.... > > What could be clearer then this to describe what is about to take > place...>JRN > > > > So let's say you expel all the Jews from America. Are your cities going to > > suddenly blossom as "Cities of God"? Even if they are, why can't you tell > > us in advance what they would be like? Is Christianity at the level of the > > complete culture a big secret while Christianity at the level of the > > individual is to be proselytized to the whole world according to The Great > > Commission? Why the "conspiracy of silence"? > > POC > > > > On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Christian Party wrote: > > > > > What you mean is, Poley, that if White Christian Israelites would just > shut their mouths and tacitly agree to continue to fund the survival of jews > who are too STUPID to even get along with their own neighbors in the Middle > East (or any other place they ever went throughout world history), much less > to create a stable society on their own, that jews in Israel could rob us of > another $130 billion from our Treasury, and that the jews in the US would be > glad to help us quintuple the already highest public and private debts in > world history. > > > > > > What did AMERICANS get for their $132 billion "investment" in Israel, > besides a knock on the side of the head with 9-11? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! > > > > > > Take your hide to some other remote desert spot, or another planet for > all we care, and start your OWN country without TAKING from everybody else > in the world, and test your "Culture of Life" ALL BY YOURSELF. > > > > > > We have a Christian nation to restore. > > > > > > John Knight > > > > > > > > > IMO the Jews should be allowed to show the world their "light unto the > > > nations" in a more friendly and protected environment than the Middle > > > East. If President Bush were to make "faith-based" grants available to > > > Jews, Christians, Muslims and others, and these diverse faiths were to > > > design brand new cities plus surroundings to take up the 3,500,000 > added > > > to the populations of USA-Canada each year, who do you think would > give us > > > the best example of a "Culture of Life"? > > > FWP > > > > > > On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, Christian Party wrote: > > > > > > > Very, very well said, Carol! > > > > > > > > You should be advised that our ongoing poll shows that > > > > three quarters of Americans already agree with you, > > > > with hardly a whisper of debate. > > > > > http://apps3.vantagenet.com/zsv/survey.asp?finish=Finish&id=1112715710 > > > > > > > > Once the facts are on the table, that figure should > > > > climb to 98.1%, though 75% is enough for a > > > > Constitutional Amendment, a national referendum, or a > > > > plain flat Executive Order. > > > > > > > > The damages done by jews to this Christian nation are > > > > a million or a billion or a trillion times more costly > > > > and/or deadly than anything Palestinians EVER did or > > > > hoped to do to "Israel". They must GO. > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > John Knight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Carol A. Valentine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Let's Discuss Mass Expulsion of Jews from US > > > > > > > > > > by Carol A . Valentine > > > > > Curator, Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum > > > > > http://www.Public-Action.com > > > > > Copyright, December, 2001 > > > > > May be reproduced for non-commercial purposes. > > > > > > > > > > December 29 -- In October, New York's Mayor Giuliani > > > > > spoke by > > > > > telephone to a right-wing rally in Jerusalem at > > > > > which speakers urged > > > > > the mass expulsion of Palestinians from Israel's > > > > > occupied > > > > > territories. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.10.26/news2.html > > > > > (See text of article below) > > > > > > > > > > When non-Jews are accused of doing this to Jews, > > > > > mass expulsion is > > > > > classified as a Crime Against Humanity. See quote > > > > > from Adolf > > > > > Eichmann judgement: "With regard to the activity of > > > > > the Accused ... > > > > > designed to bring about the forced emigration of > > > > > Jews ... there is no > > > > > doubt that ... these were acts of expulsion of a > > > > > civilian population > > > > > which fall within the definition of 'crime against > > > > > humanity.'" See > > > > > third paragraph from bottom at: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Judgment/Judg > ment-058.html > > > > > > > > > > But when Jews are planning the mass expulsion of > > > > > non-Jews, the phrase > > > > > "Crime Against Humanity" is not even whispered. > > > > > Forced expulsion is > > > > > downgraded to an "issue" called "population > > > > > transfer," and that > > > > > "issue" is to be discussed by only those who > > > > > matter--Jews. > > > > > > > > > > See, for example, the comments on the October rally > > > > > by the Zionist > > > > > Organization of America (below): "The issue of > > > > > transfer is an issue > > > > > for the government of Israel and the people of > > > > > Israel to discuss, not > > > > > for the mayor of New York City." > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on the rally, the national director of > > > > > the Anti-Defamation > > > > > League, Abraham Foxman, said that American Jewish > > > > > groups needed to > > > > > respond if the "issue" of "population transfer" is > > > > > addressed. > > > > > Presumably the opinion of non-Jewish Americans on > > > > > this "issue" is not > > > > > worthy of consideration ... > > > > > > > > > > Foxman said that ADL views the notion of "transfer" > > > > > as "undemocratic, > > > > > contrary to Jewish tradition and Jewish history." > > > > > Notice Foxman does > > > > > not rely upon American principles. Certainly he > > > > > does not mention > > > > > "Crime Against Humanity." Even so, Foxman is lying. > > > > > Jews will > > > > > degrade the goyim at their convenience, provided > > > > > they can get away > > > > > with it. Foxman knows that the Jews can't get away > > > > > with mass > > > > > expulsion of the Palestinians just yet, so he makes > > > > > weak > > > > > condemnation. > > > > > > > > > > Jewish organizations such as the Anti-Defamation > > > > > League and the > > > > > Zionist Organization of America advocate > > > > > anti-American public policy. > > > > > They take their ideas straight from the Talmud. In > > > > > fact Jews > > > > > (Talmudists) regard goyim as a lower life form, as > > > > > sub-human. > > > > > According to the Talmud, non-Jews can be slaughtered > > > > > like cattle. > > > > > > > > > > * The intent to kill a non-Jew is so laudable that > > > > > even if a Jew is > > > > > accidently killed in an attempt to kill a non-Jew, > > > > > the murderous Jew > > > > > suffers no liability. > > > > > > > > > > * But if a Jew intends to kill another Jew and does > > > > > so, he is liable. > > > > > > > > > > (Babylonian Talmud, Soncino Edition, London, 1935. > > > > > Sanhedrin 78b-79a.) > > > > > > > > > > * If a Jew murders a Gentile, the Jew suffers no > > > > > death penalty. > > > > > (Sanhedrin 57a.) > > > > > > > > > > * if a Gentile strikes a Jew in the jaw, the > > > > > Gentile, having > > > > > stricken the "Divine Presence" (that is, a Jew) > > > > > suffers the death > > > > > penalty. (Sanhedrin 58b, pg.388). > > > > > > > > > > This Talmudic policy flies in the face of the > > > > > American belief that > > > > > all men were created equal, and that there should be > > > > > "Equal Justice > > > > > Under Law." Perhaps Talmudists should never be > > > > > permitted to hold a > > > > > government position because they are religiously > > > > > opposed to the US > > > > > Bill of Rights. Perhaps they should not be allowed > > > > > to hold US > > > > > citizenship, for they don't support American ideals. > > > > > > > > > > In fact, let's take a page from the Zionist book. > > > > > Let's start to > > > > > discuss the mass expulsion of Jews from the US. > > > > > (You can call the > > > > > expulsion "population transfer" if you like.) The > > > > > issue would be a > > > > > matter for Americans only to consider, and Jews > > > > > living in the US > > > > > should have no voice in the discussion. > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > Let's see how the Anti-Defamation League and the > > > > > Zionist Organization > > > > > of America, other Jewish organizations, and American > > > > > Jews > > > > > individually react to this public policy suggestion. > > > > > If they believe > > > > > that all men were created equal, they surely will > > > > > not object. If > > > > > they do object, what clearer evidence do we need > > > > > that Jews do not > > > > > believe in equal rights, that they are not part of > > > > > the American > > > > > culture, and that they should be expelled en masse? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your consideration of this important > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > === > > > > > > > > > > This article appeared in FORWARD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.10.26/news2.html > > > > > > > > > > OCTOBER 26, 2001 > > > > > Rightist Rally Hears Speech From Giuliani > > > > > > > > > > FORWARD STAFF > > > > > > > > > > JERUSALEM - New York's Mayor Giuliani spoke by > > > > > telephone this week to > > > > > a right-wing rally here at which speakers called for > > > > > the dissolution > > > > > of the Palestinian Authority and several speakers > > > > > urged the mass > > > > > expulsion of Palestinians from Israel's occupied > > > > > territories. > > > > > > > > > > The rally, staged by the Council of Settlers of > > > > > Judea, Samaria and > > > > > Gaza, was billed as a memorial for slain Tourism > > > > > Minister Rehavam > > > > > Ze'evi. Drawing a boisterous crowd of 80,000 mainly > > > > > Orthodox Jews to > > > > > Jerusalem's Zion Square, its themes included > > > > > stepping up the war > > > > > against terrorism and banishing Yasser Arafat from > > > > > the territories. > > > > > At least four speakers, including a leader of > > > > > Ze'evi's Moledet Party, > > > > > Knesset Member Benny Elon, called for the "transfer" > > > > > of the > > > > > Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza to the 22 > > > > > other Arab nations > > > > > as demonstrators brandished signs that described Mr. > > > > > Arafat and Osama > > > > > bin Laden as "twins." > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Giuliani spoke to the crowd by live telephone > > > > > hookup from New > > > > > York, reportedly at the invitation of Jerusalem > > > > > Mayor Ehud Olmert. > > > > > > > > > > "New York and Jerusalem are closer than ever > > > > > before," Mr. Giuliani > > > > > told the crowd, adding that the two cities have "the > > > > > same values." > > > > > "Both the United States and Israel are seeking to > > > > > defend and > > > > > perpetuate the same values of democracy, freedom, > > > > > respect for the law > > > > > and human life," he said. > > > > > > > > > > According to a close adviser and former aide to Mr. > > > > > Giuliani, Bruce > > > > > Teitelbaum, the mayor had no knowledge of the > > > > > contents of the > > > > > speeches or the tenor of the rally. He "simply > > > > > wanted to express his > > > > > solidarity with the people of Israel at this very > > > > > difficult time and > > > > > to explain to the Israeli people that the United > > > > > States is fighting > > > > > terrorism and that it is important to eradicate > > > > > terrorism forever, > > > > > wherever it exists." > > > > > > > > > > "I'm certain the mayor would reject the notion of > > > > > the forced > > > > > expulsion of anyone from Israel," Mr. Teitelbaum > > > > > added. > > > > > > > > > > Last year, while Mr. Giuliani was running for the > > > > > U.S. Senate against > > > > > then-first lady Hillary Clinton, Mrs. Clinton was > > > > > repeatedly > > > > > criticized by Mr. Giuliani's supporters for > > > > > appearing at events where > > > > > sponsors or fellow-speakers took extreme anti-Israel > > > > > positions. In > > > > > each case Mrs. Clinton had denied being familiar > > > > > with the background > > > > > of the people in question. > > > > > > > > > > This week, however, most observers appeared to > > > > > accept Mr. Giuliani's > > > > > ignorance as sufficient explanation for his > > > > > participation alongside > > > > > advocates of a view most Americans consider > > > > > repugnant. "If one mayor > > > > > asks another to address a gathering, there is no > > > > > reason to have any > > > > > doubts," said the national director of the > > > > > Anti-Defamation League, > > > > > Abraham Foxman. He added that ADL views the notion > > > > > of "transfer" as > > > > > "undemocratic, contrary to Jewish tradition and > > > > > Jewish history." > > > > > > > > > > "You try to find out to the best of your ability > > > > > what will be said, > > > > > but there is nothing to stop someone to get up at > > > > > the microphone and > > > > > deciding to go beyond the script," said the > > > > > assistant executive > > > > > director of Americans for Peace Now, Lewis Roth. > > > > > "However, it is also > > > > > incumbent on individuals speaking at political > > > > > events in Israel to > > > > > make sure that the tone and content of the events > > > > > are consistent with > > > > > mainstream thinking about various issues." > > > > > > > > > > The speech was the second time in recent weeks that > > > > > Mr. Giuliani has > > > > > injected himself into the Middle East conflict. Two > > > > > weeks ago, he > > > > > rejected a Saudi prince's $10-million donation > > > > > toward relief for the > > > > > World Trade Center attack after the prince suggested > > > > > the attack > > > > > stemmed from American support for Israel. The > > > > > mayor's move at the > > > > > time was applauded by many American Jewish > > > > > organizations. > > > > > > > > > > "Transfer," or mass relocation of Palestinians from > > > > > the territories, > > > > > is a controversial doctrine that kept Ze'evi on the > > > > > margins of > > > > > Israeli politics for years, despite his reputation > > > > > as a military > > > > > hero. The doctrine continues to win little support > > > > > in the general > > > > > public, though it is said to enjoy significant > > > > > backing in the > > > > > settler community, which is nearly unanimous in > > > > > opposing any peace > > > > > plan that would give Palestinians sovereignty in the > > > > > territories > > > > > currently under Israeli control. > > > > > > > > > > This week's rally was intended by the settler > > > > > movement as a > > > > > combination show of strength, memorial to Ze'evi and > > > > > protest against > > > > > what settlers view as government inaction in the > > > > > face of Palestinian > > > > > terror. > > > > > > > > > > One rally participant, Heather Samuels, a native of > > > > > Memphis, Tenn., > > > > > said she attended the rally to mourn Ze'evi's death, > > > > > to oppose the > > > > > dialogue with the Palestinian Authority and to > > > > > encourage Israel's > > > > > government to use military means to resolve the > > > > > year-old intifada, > > > > > "just as President Bush is" in his war against > > > > > terrorism. > > > > > > > > > > Others, however, used the rally as an opportunity to > > > > > spread messages > > > > > of their own. One Moledet volunteer was seen > > > > > distributing stickers > > > > > calling for the arrest of the "Oslo criminals," as > > > > > rightists often > > > > > refer to Foreign Minister Shimon Peres and his > > > > > allies. The volunteer, > > > > > who declined to give his name but said he was from > > > > > the West Bank > > > > > settlement of Karnei Shomron, wondered aloud how the > > > > > United States > > > > > would react if the "black population of America was > > > > > to rise up > > > > > against the whites and fire mortars at New York. > > > > > That would be the > > > > > end of them. Now we have to do the same." > > > > > > > > > > A deputy mayor of Jerusalem, Larrisa Gerstein, a > > > > > political ally of > > > > > Mr. Ze'evi, told the Forward she saw the rally as > > > > > evidence of a > > > > > "resurgence of the right, that was always strong. > > > > > But more than the > > > > > strengthening of the right, I see the building of > > > > > national unity, > > > > > unconnected with politics, that addresses our > > > > > survival. The only way > > > > > to ensure [Israel's survival] and to commemorate the > > > > > deaths of the > > > > > 657 people killed since the signing of the Oslo > > > > > agreement is to see > > > > > Oslo to the grave." > > > > > > > > > > Many on the left, however, downplayed the importance > > > > > of the rally. "I > > > > > am surprised that they had less than 100,000," said > > > > > Peace Now > > > > > spokesman Didi Remez. "As an absolute show of > > > > > strength it was pretty > > > > > small." He predicted that the return of the Israeli > > > > > government to > > > > > pre-Oslo policies of confrontation with the > > > > > Palestinians would > > > > > galvanize Israel's floundering left. "Most people > > > > > see us sliding down > > > > > a slippery path to another Lebanon, and that is what > > > > > we must > > > > > prevent," he said. > > > > > > > > > > Morton Klein, national president of the Zionist > > > > > Organization of > > > > > America, placed Mr. Giuliani's speech in line with > > > > > his support for > > > > > Israel and dismissed any connection between the > > > > > mayor and the issue > > > > > of population transfer. > > > > > > > > > > "The issue of transfer is an issue for the > > > > > government of Israel and > > > > > the people of Israel to discuss, not for the mayor > > > > > of New York City," > > > > > Mr. Klein said. > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Foxman, while agreeing that "our responsibility > > > > > is not to respond > > > > > to demonstrations and people in the street," said > > > > > that American > > > > > Jewish groups need to respond if the issue of > > > > > population transfer is > > > > > addressed. > > > > > > > > > > The rally showed the anger many Israelis feel in the > > > > > wake of the > > > > > Ze'evi assassination. As demonstrators held a sign > > > > > declaring "Muslims > > > > > are Nazis," Mr. Elon criticized Prime Minister > > > > > Sharon for sending a > > > > > message to Washington that Mr. Arafat is Israel's > > > > > partner, while > > > > > declaring in Israel that he is the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Olmert, for his part, devoted his speech to > > > > > expressions of > > > > > unreserved support for the settler movement. He > > > > > called the settlers > > > > > the "commandos of Israel, the very foundation of > > > > > Israel's strength," > > > > > who act as Israel's defensive outpost against those > > > > > who oppose its > > > > > right to exist "both within and without." > > > > > > > > > > He ended his speech by declaring that Israel will > > > > > "never leave any > > > > > part of Jerusalem." > > > > > > > > > > --- end --- > > > > > > > > > > Read about FORWARD at: > > > > > http://www.forward.com/history.html > > > > > > > > > > === > > > > > -- > > > > > Carol A. Valentine > > > > > President, Public Action, Inc. > > > > > http://www.Public-Action.com > > > > > See the handiwork of the world's leading terrorist > > > > > organization, the FBI: > > > > > Visit the Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum > > > > > > > > > > 911 Lies exposed at > > > > > http://www.public-action.com/911/ > > > > > * Operation 911: NO SUICIDE PILOTS > > > > > * The Taliban Home Video > > > > > * Bin Laden: AUTHENTIC INTERVIEW > > > > > * 911 Terror: Muslims Suspend Laws of Physics > > > > > * Osama bin Surplus > > > > > * Osama bin CIA Agent > > > > > * Press Uses Actors In War On Islam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > > > Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! > > > Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! > > > Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/wpWolB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > > > What kind of city with surroundings would one expect of a "faith-based > public works" project with the objective of designing and constructing a > "culture of life"? Would a George Bush "culture of life" be the same as a > Vatican "culture of life"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! 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