| http://infowars.com/pieczenik_transcript.htm AJ: We are excited to have a great guest, an intelligent guest, like Dr. Steve Pieczenik on the show. He has worked in four administrations. He has worked for the deputy secretary of state, hostage negotiator, the list goes on and on. He is a critically acclaimed author of psycho-political novels and co-creator of the best-selling Tom Clancy’s Op-Center and Tom Clancy’s Netforce series. He is a Harvard psychiatrist with an MD from Cornel University and PhD in International Relations from MIT. The doctor served for four presidential administrations. Again, now let’s start getting into this whole bin Laden situation and I’ve got a bunch of emails and I got a partial transcript of it and I called the station to confirm that you were on but they didn’t have a transcript. And.... SP: You know, what I said was Alex, this is following issue. AJ: We are talking about bin Laden for those that just joined us. SP: Right, but we are talking about bin Laden. The issue is what the relationship is between the bin Laden family and the Bush family. It’s much more complicated than has been revealed, than has been revealed by anyone. And that is that it goes back for several decades. AJ: Back into the mid-70s. SP: It goes back, exactly. They have now, Bush, Sr, who I have served as well, and Bush, Jr. have literally gone to the bin Laden family and the Carlyle Group. This is the private equity group here in Washington, which the bin Laden family have been in. And they claimed they only had 2 million dollars, but my sense is that it was far more extensive, that they owned all kinds of companies, including one of the largest conglomerates in our military contracting. And bin Laden was, remember, our ally, supposedly our ally in 1979, ’80, when he worked with us to drive the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. He was just a young kid. AJ: Brzezinski talks about that in “The Grand Chessboard”. SP: Right, and that he then turned against us and we created a political Frankenstein. And that’s not the first time we’ve done that Alex and this is what I want to tell your audience. AJ: You are saying it is blowback. SP: It’s blowback, exactly. And what I was saying about a blowback was that if we tend to have a pattern here in the United States and it has to do, I think primarily with the fact that we don’t have good intelligence or good CIA capability to handle all of our so-called in between or gray-zone friends/enemies. And what happens is we just dump them. It was the same thing with Noriega. We had to go in and send in 22,000 troops. It was the same thing with Saddam Hussein, we fought with him for five years against Iran. We killed over a million people. We supplied him with the actual biological and chemical weapons. It was the CIA that did that. Suddenly we find ourselves at war with him. That was a blowback. Then we go to war and we don’t finish the war. Now we are going back to war again. And I am trying to say, wait a minute guys, if you messed up the first time, what makes you think you are going to do it again the second time. And so we have a blowback with Osama. But what made it more difficult was, I found out through my sources that he had had kidney disease. And as a physician, I knew that he had to have two dialysis machines and he was dying. And you could see those in those films, those made-up photos that they were sending us out of nowhere. I mean, suddenly, we would see a video of bin Laden today and then out of nowhere, they said oh it was sent to us anonymously, meaning that someone in the government, our government, was trying to keep up the morale on our side and say oh we still have to chase this guy when, in fact, he’s been dead for months. AJ: You are talking about the obvious fat guy, sitting there that looked nothing like bin Laden. SP: You’ve got it. I mean the whole thing was a, I mean it was such a hoax. I mean I said you would have to be, you know, blind and stupid to not realize that this is really being manipulating in trying to manipulate us. AJ: The type of psyops that we’d see coming out of Dr. Steve Pieczenik. SP: It’s not the kind of thing that I would do to the American public. But the more important part was that ... BREAK AJ: We are talking about Osama bin Laden, the CIA asset during the ‘80s, right into the early ‘90s and now the mainstream reports here out of Europe and the U.S. confirming that he was involved in the situation in the Bosnian and the Serb war. And then what Dr. Pieczenik is calling the classic term “blowback” – the bad boy getting out of control and this report of him in the American hospital. It’s been in the Washington Times, you name it, getting nursed back to health, meeting with the CIA Section Chief for ten days. Dr. Pieczenik, a former undersecretary of State and member of the CFR, you name it, can say, oh yeah that’s true but he’s got an explanation for it. Please elaborate doctor. SP: Well, I don’t have a very good explanation. I was shocked as well as you were in that what is a Station Chief doing seeing Osama bin Laden when he was already declared an international war criminal under the previous administration and then the Station Chief testified, with several others, that the whole family – the notion that the family of bin Laden when they evacuated and left this country and then was subsequently interviewed, said they had no relation with bin Laden and that they didn’t know where he was and all that nonsense. It’s just sheer nonsense. And so when that popped up and I saw that, I said there is a lot of things going on here that don’t make sense. And that means that they are using bin Laden in a way that the United States government or you call Big Brother is basically using it in a very, ah, ah, ah, how should I say this, nefarious, in a very dangerous way to manipulate the American public. AJ: A pretext to get more control. SP: Well, it’s a pretext to get, I don’t know if I would say more control. They are not very good at controlling this. Because it’s really, it has really discredited the ability of the government to handle a simple situation without having to insult the intelligence of the American citizen. AJ: And you are saying earlier that you brushed up against this at an airport, I believe you said Nevada? SP: Oh yeah, in Reno, Nevada, where literally the police came and just took me away. And I said, what are you after? They searched me three to four times. I said, look you know, I’ve written these profiles. They didn’t answer anything. That’s called preventative detention. I said am I under arrest? They said no. I said what are you holding me for? And, can I tell you, well I won’t use that language on the air what I said to them but basically, this kind of activity is just totally unacceptable for the United States of America. AJ: And again, according to the press reports, you are the guy that coined the phrase, or did you, “conflict management” or.. SP: I use what is called, I call it “crisis management.” I’m not sure I’m the original one, but I’ve used it for most of my life and basically every crisis from Arafat, in evacuating our soldiers, to evacuating our civilians, to going into hot spots in Cambodia and trying to stop Pol Pot from another killing field and still being on the hit list of a lot of terrorist groups all over the world. Still on the number one hit list of the Red Brigade in Italy, they still want me. AJ: Okay doctor, everything you are saying makes sense and we have had other CFR people on here couple of times and they are elitists. They.. SP: I don’t want you to think of me as a CFR, all I did was pay dues. I’m haven’t attended a meeting in four or five years. So if you could use another title, I’d appreciate it Alex. AJ: Alright, I mean there are so many, my point is I’ve had these other guys up and they’re pompous, they don’t even seem that smart. Compared to having another talk show host on, but you seem very intelligent and obviously so, I mean working around all these people. I mean here you are talking about this bin Laden situation – give us your intel on that or what you have heard of the info you have... SP: Well, it’s not a good situation but it basically says to me that this is an orchestrated type of war and I think that I didn’t want to believe it for a very long time. And then I said that somebody is orchestrating something here with the agreement of the bin Laden family, knowing fully well that he would die. And I think that Musharraf, the President of Pakistan, spelled the beans by accident three months ago when he said that bin Laden was dead because his kidney dialysis machines were destroyed in East Afghanistan. Well, he was one of few that knew that he had a kidney problem. That wasn’t well known before. Everybody thought he had a heart disease AJ: Exactly, but we have him in this American, called the American hospital, and that report was confirmed SP: That was confirmed that he had kidney disease. So, what happened there is that we have Bush, Sr., Bush, Jr, dealing with the bin Laden family and then going to war with this organization that we effectively created in 1970s and 80s, when we drove out the Soviet Union. And that was the conversion, again blowback, of the young mujahideen where we gave them armament through the CIA again and that was no great secret. Everybody knew that and then there was a blowback. AJ: They knew the blowback was coming and allowed it to happen. Again, I am absolutely blown away, doctor, because this is in all the evidence that I have. I have over a hundred mainstream articles, government documents, Northwoods, you name it, on infowars.com in the government prior knowledge section. And, to have you up on this show, I mean I didn’t know which direction you were going to go and I just had some of the transcripts from another interview that you did, but it’s amazing and now more and more people are saying it. But look, they created bin Laden, they use him, the family is in bed with the Bushes back in the mid-70s, and you are talking about a stage-managed war. I mean, you just said it. I mean, boil it down for us. What are you saying, a former deputy secretary of state, what are you saying? SP: Well what I am saying is, I mean as a deputy assistant, what I am saying is that I am coming to the same conclusion that you came to. And that is, and I hope I’m wrong, but more and more evidence points to the fact that somehow, given who the people are that they appointed to the Dept. of Defense, they were civilians who had never been in the military. The same guys who were in Iran-Contra dealings. And then you have the same people who are involved with Saddam Hussein – Cheney and you have Condoleezza Rice who really wasn’t all that much impression and the same whole cast, very tightly controlled and they are managing something that doesn’t make sense to me. And that is, yeah there was an attack on the World Trade Center, yet we don’t really know who did it. And the president shows and says well here I have the evidence that bin Laden did it. Well, if bin Laden did it, then why was the first mention and the first order that was given, and I think you would remember this, so would your audience, is the FBI has to evacuate the entire family. If you were to go into a criminal scene or investigation, you wouldn’t say to everybody there, if you wanted to know who the culprit is, and you say oh that’s the culprit, let’s get rid of the whole family and not ask anybody any questions. That was a big mistake. AJ: That’s another red flag, another smoking gun that I didn’t even put in my 144-minute tour de force film that’s has so much evidence every 5 seconds, there’s some new document or news release or public statement. You’ve got them, when all other aircraft are grounded, other than the military, you’ve got jets flying out of Florida and Boston ferrying this Royal family out of here. SP: That’s exactly right. And so the question becomes, what’s going on here? And then the last one is of course is the fourth plane which had seventy-five minutes, in other words, those of you who are particularly – fighter pilots understand this. You can’t fly at about three or four-hundred feet off the ground and at seventy-five minutes out, you have to go out to the Chesapeake and the ocean and you are telling me that we couldn’t get fighter planes in there? When we had already had two attacks and you are telling me that that was not a military pilot who was trained to crash into the Dept. of Defense? That’s unbelievable and that was a sleeper. So, I can’t put that all together, but I’ll put all together and it’s not a good picture, Alex. AJ: What was a sleeper? SP: The guy, the one flying that plane into the Dept. of Defense. Those guys were sleepers. I mean you’ve got to explain, does your audience understand what, a sleeper is a concept that came out and it’s actually, they are agents that are trained that came out of the old cold war where the Russians would create and have individuals who were trained to kill and then they would be activated many years later. If you saw the movie, The Manchurian Candidate, you’d get a good idea of that. AJ: MKUltra mind control SP: MKUltra mind control, exactly. AJ: You know this is incredible. We’ve got one of the pre-eminent hostage negotiators, psyops guy, you know, worked with Tom Clancy, worked in four administrations, and then here you are with all the information. SP: It is very disturbing to me Alex as it is to anyone of our American citizens who is not buying it. AJ: So why did you decide to start going public with this? Was it getting.... SP: I went public with this, no, I went public, well I’ve always been kind of a maverick. But I was offered an O7, and I said look I work alone, I’m a singleton basically and I work on my own and I work for my country. I never got a pension. I never really got paid much for what I did. I often had to pay back most of the expenses. I’m not telling you how great I am as an American. But as an American citizen, the reason that I went public, the first thing that bothered me was when Vice President Cheney was (garbled) for having had at Haliburton, and that big corporation that he had in oil, which he was given $35 million for all his knowledge in oil which he had none of, he had been a former secretary of defense, he had put in a embargo on Iraq and then he denied that he didn’t know anything about the embargo – the fact that they had violated the embargo by having a $75 million joint venture with Iraq and at that point I said, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. Cheney was just outright lying and he committed a crime by violating an embargo. And I said these guys are in trouble and I’m going out publicly to say this can’t continue. Not as an American citizen, I’m not going back to war. I’m not going back and letting American soldiers die – for something that may have been concocted or created. It’s one thing if we are attacked by the Nazis or the Japanese or something. I’m not denying that we were attacked. The question is who did what and how it was orchestrated and if it was orchestrated, then we have a real problem and that will destroy our democracy. That’s why I went public – and you know that. _________ AJ: Doctor, stay right there. I am shaken by this. You know, David Schippers, the guy who impeached Bill Clinton, said basically the same things on this show and more and more great American inside the system, cold warriors are blowing the whistle. We’ll be right back with our guest. BREAK AJ: ..Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, he is best-selling author, works with Tom Clancy, you name it and he is concerned. I’m glad that more and more Americans are concerned about government prior knowledge and involvement in allowing September 11th to take place. And, you know, Dr. Pieczenik, a lot of people don’t understand, they say well if the government had prior knowledge of September 11th or allowed it to take place, like FDR allowing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor. They had it on the History Channel. Well, how did those guys then fly aircraft into buildings? And my only point is this: all you need is a double agent like bin Laden who we know has been an asset of the CIA, to go in and hype up the Islamics. Then the door is open and they are allowed to come in ... SP: Well, you know, I’ve got .. Go ahead, Alex, keep going... AJ: Then their names are kept out of the Customs computers. Then the watch list doesn’t get to the airlines. Fifty-eight minutes they had to shoot down the second plane that hit the World Trade Center and, as you said, seventy plus minutes to get that other plane. So, example after example, and then somebody with an incredible track record and serious resume like yourself comes out with an analysis that I don’t even come out with on the air, even though that’s what I suspected – most Americans can’t grasp sleeper agents. If you start talking about this, because of the military precision of the Pentagon attack or even what we saw with the twin towers. I mean, again, elaborate on this for us. This is earth shattering. SP: Well, it’s earth shattering for me, too. It was the kind of thing that I wouldn’t want to believe. I mean, you know it’s not like I just came out of the closet and I was a whistle blower. I want the audience to understand. I’m a patriot and I’ve always felt strongly that the reason that I served my country is because it’s an honor to serve, to serve the people. I don’t serve a institution or a government that got out of control. And by the way, I wrote a book about this years ago, called “State of Emergency” where I said that we are going to have fights about the devolution of federal power, but basically it was over water rights in the Colorado River and occurred over Nevada and Arizona and that’s what’s happening – it’s States vs. federal rights. AJ: Sagebrush rebellion. SP: You got it. And let’s go back to that. And then what’s bothering me Alex and I think you articulated it better than I have was I didn’t want to believe what I was putting together. And you are beginning to articulate it and this has been going on for well over six to nine months. I mean I have been saying for a long time even to the individuals involved and whom I know personally in the White House and elsewhere, you are making a mistake by bringing in the people that you are doing, you are signaling to those of us who are knowledgeable these are not serious people. These are people who have caused problems in the past. And something is going on here. And that’s why when you get a guy like Cheney, Vice President, believe me this is a micromanager. There is nothing that goes by that he does not know and that’s the reason he’s got five heart attacks. But I don’t find him, not one of them has served in the military, other than Armitage. But not one of them has ever.... AJ: Richard Armitage, this guy is hooked up with the short trading, caught red-handed on United and American in that story... SP: Is that true, is that what you have him on? AJ: Oh yeah, we got it in triplicate. SP: Okay, well I’m not surprised, part of the neocon group again is a conservative group of guys who come from the extreme left that suddenly have an epiphany and go to the extreme right. So one of the reasons that I was concerned is that we’re heading in for a war that is partly orchestrated by us and we went into Afghanistan and that was one of the phoniest things that I have ever seen where General Kelly said, and he finally admitted, that we made a mistake. We used these war lords as the surrogates for fighting instead of American soldiers. And I’m saying, what is this a joke? I mean what idiot is going to believe that. I mean anyone who knows the war lords, knows that they are the most distrustful, dishonest guys in the world. They run narco traffic through Afghanistan. We went through this before after ten years, twenty years before. So what is this nonsense about suddenly we win a war in Kandahar and Mazar-e-Sharif in twenty minutes and it turns out we didn’t win anything. What happened it was a revolving door. Everything that we were going after, al Qaeda, they took in and made their exchanges and then it had to do with issues of a pipeline being put down in the north of Afghanistan. It goes back to the Carlyle Group and Unocal. Unocal, then I started checking the records, put up a one-hundred billion dollar bid and this is open record. You can check it in front of the Congressional committee and UNOCAL and that’s one of the big five put up one-hundred billion to put up an oil pipeline up to the Caspian Sea to that base where they found trillions of gallons of barrels of oil and we could dump the Middle East that way. And that started to explain to me – well, you’ve got Cheney, you got Bush, the oil boys, they are concerned about that pipline, you’ve got the Carlyle Group and then you’ve got the neocons forcing us to get into wars with people who have weapons of mass destruction. Well, there are a lot of countries that have weapons of mass destruction. That doesn’t mean we go to war with them. AJ: Professor, we’ve got to break again. This is one of the most riveting shows we have ever done. It’s amazing to have you on the air with us and I know you don’t want to be called professor, its says that in one of the bios. Doctor, we’ll be back after this quick break. BREAK AJ: Steve, I have to be honest with you. I though that you were going to come on and make excuses for what happened with the bin Ladens being in with the Bushes and... SP: No way, Alex, I’m an American. The one thing you don’t do as an American is you don’t play and mess with my constitutional freedom. I don’t care who you are, what your name is, what you think you are. When you mess with that, you are going to see me retaliate. And I warned the White House. I warned them, quite frankly. Some of the people who are involved because they know me well. I said if I can help you up there and I helped both Bushes to get elected. Trust me, I’m going to help bring you down because you don’t play with the American public and their freedom. And you don’t play with lives, American soldiers’ lives that I value, because not only am I a physician but having been in wars, seeing these boys die for who, for whom, and the answer is no - as long as I live and I have a breath, I will still fight for that constitution. The constitution was based, created by men who understood what it meant not to centralize power, to make sure that we had the freedom of the individual and that the individual was more important than the State. AJ: And that is why our country has produced so much and now it’s all being squandered. So, again, PS: We are not producing anything Alex. We’ve become a third-world country. Right now you’ve got China is a big problem. They are producing more than we are. And what are we sending out – billions of dollars. We are creating a nonsense organization, Homeland Security. I’ve never heard of such idiocy. Seventy-six billion dollars for a man who has never run anything, totally emasculated, Tom Ridge, a nice man, as a governor who doesn’t know anything. He never saw a terrorist in his life. AJ: I’ve heard of Homeland Security – that’s what Sturm Stoffel, SS stood for. PS: Well, I don’t want to go that far but the point is what came out of the seventy-six billion dollars. You got the color red, yellow, green and blue to tell me, what am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? AJ: They are going to have nightly alerts and FEMA is going to activate our TV and radios, they told us. PS: Sure, that will be the day. AJ: Recapping before we get into any other subjects that you’d like to discuss. PS: Let me recap it very simply so that I make my position. I have not just suddenly come out of the closet. I‘ve come out in a very distinct position my whole life. I stand by what I believe. I have served different administrations not because I served the administration but I served the American public. That’s the way I viewed it. I was the only one who resigned. I mean Cyrus Vance is proud that he resigned on Carter but I resigned over Cyrus Vance’s handling of the Iran hostage siege because he sent me one of these left wing nuts by the name of Ramsey Clark. I knew we would never have a chance to deal with the hostage negotiation and like chess, when you open up the move, you lose a lot of time. And we were in deep trouble. So, I said Mr. Secretary, you are incompetent. And so I quit and that’s the kind of guy I am. And that’s why I’m not in this administration or others. When they called me in, believe me, there is a lot that hit the fan. And the reason why I come back in is because I cleaned it up for the American public. Not for the president who’s elected, not for the people there because they have become too self-important. What we have created, it’s not a democracy but we created for ourselves is common royalty. And they think they are that indispensable and the answer is no man is indispensable to lead this country. No man. And every citizen is indispensable. And when you get to that point where we have to salute the flag – we have five different police forces here in Washington and jet planes flying overhead. Give me a break. And that’s what I believe in. The American way of life is very simple. Let’s us do what we do. Leave us alone. Don’t get in my back pocket and don’t come into my bedroom. That’s how I believe. |
