-Caveat Lector- > This is being sent on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > as part of the mailing list that you joined. > List: emperorsclothes > URL: http://www.emperors-clothes.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > URL for this article: http://emperors-clothes.com/news/borislav.htm > > Join our email list at http://emperors-clothes.com/f.htm > Receive articles posted on Emperor's Clothes. > > Please feel free to re-post articles but please quote rather than > paraphrasing. Please credit the author(s) if you use our work. And > please give the article's Web address so people can check the > documentation. > > www.tenc.net * [Emperor's Clothes] > ======================================= > A CONVERSATION WITH AMBASSADOR * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC, SLOBODAN'S > BROTHER > [Posted 2 June 2002] > ======================================= > Note from Jared Israel: On May 24th I spoke via three way telephone > with BORISLAV MILOSEVIC, Yugoslav Ambassador to Russia from 1998-2000 > and before that Ambassador to Algeria. > > We discussed the significance of widespread Russian support for > Slobodan Milosevic; the New World Empire's efforts to destroy > international judicial standards and political discourse; and the > highly deceptive character of Sept. 11 and the War on Terror. > > Ambassador Milosevic mainly spoke Serbo-Croatian, which was kindly > translated by Vladimir Krsljanin, International Secretary of the > Socialist Party of Serbia. A few times Ambassador Milosevic spoke > English, as indicated in the text. > > -- JARED ISRAEL > > [To make following the conversation easier, we have preceeded > comments with the name of the speaker.] > > * JARED ISRAEL > > Mr. Ambassador it's a great honor to speak with you. > > For our readers, let me say that your brother, Slobodan Milosevic, > has just won the Sholokhov prize, named for Mikhail Sholokhov, author > of the great Russian novel, 'And Quiet Flows the Don.' Could you say > a bit more about the prize? > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > Yes. It is perhaps the most distinguished Russian award, given to > artists and political leaders of outstanding achievement. Today at > the award ceremony I accepted the prize for Slobodan Milosevic > because, as the writer Yuri Bondarev said in bestowing this honor, > Slobodan is being held in the dungeon of The Hague. > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > Dungeon is the word, isn't it? They don't even let him meet with > Chris Black, the head of his lawyers' committee. And his living > conditions are outrageous - terrible food, no exercise, no right to > see his own doctors - or any heart specialist - even though his heart > condition is a matter of record. And forced to be in court all day > and to cross-examine witnesses virtually every day, week after week, > which is unheard-of. > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > I think this award will further strengthen the fighting spirit of > Slobodan Milosevic and his courage as well. > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > Also it suggests that the Russians see President Milosevic's > resistance as important to their own experience. > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > Yes. The greater part of Russian society strongly supports Slobodan > and practically nobody approved his delivery to The Hague, not even > those Rightist parties who were hostile to his government. Both > houses of the Russian parliament voted overwhelmingly to condemn his > kidnapping. Even the mainstream newspapers publish articles critical > of The Hague. > > Russian people consider Slobodan Milosevic a hero of resistance to > imperialist intervention, a patriot who defends his country and his > people. > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > This support from Russia is very encouraging to me. > > I interviewed your brother on March 23rd 2001, just before he was > arrested. > > During that interview he said that one of the things US and West > European leaders hated about Yugoslavia was the way you handled the > question of national and religious group relations. There had been so > much conflict in the past. Some groups had been organized by the > Nazis and earlier by the Ottoman Empire to attack Serbs, and Roma and > Jews as well of course - and yet in Yugoslavia, and this is still > true in Serbia, you had schools in 24 different languages and court > proceeding in nine languages. When I was in Serbia this past year I > saw that there is still an attitude of mutual appreciation among > different groups. > > It seems to me that the strategy of the New World Empire that has > attacked you is to stir up hatred. They use the guidelines laid down > by the Nazis, finding points of weakness in ethnic or religious > groups that will allow the Empire's mass media and operatives to play > on cultural traits that if left alone wouldn't necessarily be a > problem. They stir up hatred in one culture against another in a > hideous way, especially appealing to groups that were once in a > dominant position, empowering their worst elements. The Empire does > this more effectively than the Nazis because they have much more > sophisticated mass media. Perhaps the worst thing is that the mass > media romanticizes racist violence by calling it revenge. > > But, contrary to the media lies, (1) your government never engaged in > racism. You always tried to promote fraternity. This was clear in > Slobodan Milosevic's speech at Kosovo Field in 1989 (2) and before > then too, despite the extremely provocative situation. > > Some people say Russia and Serbia are linked, that Serbia is little > Russia. And so the fact that the Russian people, after what they've > been through, the terrible trauma of the 1990s, the fact that they > can see as their beacon this man who stands for social justice and > tolerance, this gives me hope. Because there is another possible > beacon - ethnic hatred, anti-Semitism, which has reared its head in > Russia in the past, a Black Hundreds solution. > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > You're completely right. There was no kind of discrimination in > Yugoslavia, and while some former Yugoslav Republics have become > virtual mono-ethnic states, Serbia hosts a million refugees of all > national and religious groups and one third our population is not > ethnic Serbs. (3) > > Serbia did not abolish the autonomy of Kosovo in 1989 as some > so-called experts claim. Only certain extreme and inappropriate > elements of statehood were removed from what was after all a > provincial government. This was done to prevent the de facto creation > of a separate state in Kosovo. > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > Which is precisely what NATO and the UN are supporting now - a > separate Kosovo. > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > Yes. > > Kosovo Albanians were not deprived of any human or cultural rights in > 1989. The same was true of people in [the Serbian province of] > Vojvodina. In fact, Kosovo Albanians continued to have cultural > rights unequalled in the rest of Europe. > > The accusations of loss of autonomy were contrived. The secessionists > organized or forced ethnic Albanians to boycott State institutions > and set up parallel institutions for purely political reasons. (4) > > Everyone knows that schools, universities, the press, hospitals and > TV were maintained in Kosovo in the Albanian language, even during > this decade-long boycott. The secessionists organized this boycott to > provide Western media with provocative images and to create a > no-alternative situation for Albanians. All political manipulation. > (4a) > > This is clear from the leaflet which Slobodan Milosevic showed The > Hague 'court' while he was cross-examining [ethnic Albanian leader] > Ibrahim Rugova. The leaflet, which was signed by the KLA and Rugova, > ordered ethnic Albanians to leave Kosovo during the bombing. Do you > see the game they played? > > This demonstrates their dual purpose: creating the false appearance > that Serbia was causing ethnic Albanians to suffer, so that this > could be broadcast to the NATO countries, and fostering a situation > within Kosovo where compromise was near impossible. This was behind > everything they did, including the so-called Racak massacre and the > exodus of the ethnic Albanian population during the NATO aggression. > > > [ Note: regarding the above, please see, 'The Racak Hoax' at > http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/Johnstone/racakhoax.htm > > And 'Why Albanians Fled During NATO Bombing,' at > http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/keys.htm] > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > And once they got the Albanians to leave, they put them in refugee > camps under KLA control, with NATO's blessing. Even the Western media > had stories reporting that these camps featured non-stop > hate-the-Serbs-and-'Gypsies' indoctrination. > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > Yet during the three months in this Hague 'court', we have seen one > after another witness testify they never even heard of the Kosovo > Liberation Army. > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > It would embarrass NATO. They claim they are fighting terrorism, but > these people are all members - or leaders - of a terrorist group. > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > Yes. It is a problem. > > At the very beginning of the trial it seemed as if Mr. May, whom they > call 'judge,' was trying to create the impression of impartiality. > But now he openly behaves as an extension of the prosecutor. He > prompts and assists witnesses, allowing them every liberty including > making political speeches. But he cuts off Slobodan Milosevic and > does not allow him to conduct cross-examination fully or to express > his opinion. > > This is very alarming. It creates a precedent for violating accepted > legal principles including the impartiality of courts, the very basis > of law. It requires the strongest international protest. > > This on top of the fact that Slobodan Milosevic is a head of state, > overthrown by foreign money and then kidnapped by foreign agents. Who > is next? > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > I think this so-called trial makes the Reichstag Fire case look good. > At least Dimitrov was allowed to present his case. > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > Yes, this Hague 'court' behaves like someone's instrument. Since its > foundation it has been a tool of aggression against Yugoslavia. > > In some of my statements here in Russia I often say that the Yugoslav > crisis was created in order to reorganize the whole of international > relations in accordance with American interests and expansionism and > it was done in a very conscious way. > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > You know, also it was a step towards the encirclement of Russia, > wasn't it? Because isn't it true that those who would attack Russia > need to consolidate their hold in the Balkans first? And if you look > at what has happened, NATO now surrounds Russia from Central Asia to > the Baltic. They have penetrated a dozen countries. (5) > > > * BORISLAV MILOSEVIC > > The aggression in Yugoslavia was an attempt to impose new > International rules to justify NATO, a regional military > organization, usurping the sovereign rights of countries outside its > previously claimed zone of responsibility. So military and > geopolitical expansion is presented as humanitarian peace making. > Terrorist attacks are launched and then intervention is threatened if > a country defends itself, and all this is justified by a whole new > interpretation of international law so that now even the United > Nations is employed to legitimize geopolitical expansion. > > There were in the past many other examples of violations of the UN > charter: Vietnam, Granada, and so on, and this includes the sending > of Russian troops to Afghanistan. However, none of these instances > were sanctioned by the Security Council. > > In this sense, the Yugoslav case was something new, an attempt to > create an international legal framework to justify the destruction of > a country by terrorist forces. And what took place after Sept. 11, > that is NATO's expansion into Central Asia, is a continuation. > > So, in the Yugoslavia crisis we saw this new quality - aggression > condoned by international law and international legal structures. And > after September 11 we see this process moving into a new stage. This > makes it clear that both the aggression against Yugoslavia and the > expansion of NATO from a West European organization into Eastern > Europe - these were of more than regional importance. (5) > > > * JARED ISRAEL > > You know one of the interesting things about September 11th is that > here we see an Empire which has organized most of the terrorism in > the world, mainly starting with Afghanistan, but they claim to be > leading a crusade against terrorism. > > The whole strategy of the US intervention in Afghanistan, beginning > in 1979, was to promote terrorism. They and the Saudis used the > Wahhabi form of Islam, pouring money into the madresses which became > schools training the terrorists that subsequently plagued Chechnya, > Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Kashmir and I think they are in the Middle > East as well. > > And this same terrorism which they have created - and there is a lot > of indication that Mr. bin Laden is still connected with the CIA (6) > although now that NATO is entrenched in Central Asia they > conveniently stopped talking about him - this same terrorism which > they unleash in order to destabilize areas is also used as an excuse > to intervene. So it is a tool of many purposes. Very convenient and > very American, because it's very American to have a tool that does > two things at once. A gadget. Terrorism is a political gadget because > on the one hand they can use it to attack multiethnic society as they > did in Bosnia and then on the other hand they can use it as the > excuse to invade, as they are now doing with Central Asia. > > But what shows their hypocrisy is - and you may or may not know about > this - the United States is still shipping in millions of militant > Islamic fundamentalist textbooks (6a) into Afghanistan. Now why on > earth would they be doing this if they were sincerely fighting > against Islamic fundamentalism? They just used this terrorist > movement which they themselves had created as an excuse to move in. > > Just one other point that occurred to me when you were talking is > that the conduct and discourse of your government, which was the last > legitimate government in Yugoslavia since what's there now was > created by the US, Germany and Norway - the discourse of your > government respected political ideas. (7) > > This New World Empire attacks the very possibility of political > discourse by shattering the link between words and what they define - > the Empire bombs people and calls it humanitarian. They manufacture > events - we saw that with Racak. And they simply rewrite history (8), > including manufacturing a fictional version of your brother's famous > 1989 speech. (1) > > By doing these things they undermine the possibility of rational > discussion because truth becomes whatever the powers-that-be and > their media portray as true - it's a function of what's shown on TV. > And at the same time, they reduce politics to threat and violence and > then they say, "Alas, that's reality." But your brother takes ideas > seriously. > > One of the organizations orchestrating the *anti-human* actions at > The Hague is called, amazingly, Human Rights Watch. I was present the > first few days of President Milosevic's 'trial' at The Hague and I > got to observe Richard Dicker, a top HRW bureaucrat, in operation. > Not only was he virtually the only person representing the 'Tribunal' > to the press - I mean, he was Carla del Ponte's spokesman! - but both > the press and 'Tribunal' officials clearly deferred to him, and he > was often closeted with the prosecutors. I saw this with my own eyes. > I commented to one of the senior reporters, "It looks like Dickers is > running the show," and the reporter laughed and said, "Dickers *is* > the show." > > We have several articles in preparation about HRW. Their board of > directors is a Who's Who of the Imperial establishment, including > Warren Zimmermann, the U.S. Ambassador who helped destroy Yugoslavia > including by sponsoring Alijah Izetbegovic, the fundamentalist who > devastated Bosnia (9) and George Soros who boasts that he helped his > father run an extortion racket for the Nazis in Hungary during World > War Two, visiting Jewish families targeted for death camps and > demanding all their money in exchange for safe passage. And now he > runs a privatized adjunct to the CIA. And this is *Human Rights* > Watch. > > HRW demonizes anybody who stands up to Imperial-organized terror. > When NATO sent the KLA to attack Macedonia, Human Rights Watch > condemned Macedonian security troops for resisting. > > When I interviewed President Milosevic I asked why your government > accepted defeat during the coup of 2000 instead of going to war > against your opponents. He said something like, "We wanted to avoid > being sucked into a civil war, which would allow NATO to intervene on > the grounds that Serbs are 'hopelessly violent.' Moreover, it is easy > to kill people but it isn't easy to bring them back." > > Despite everything that has been done to you, you resisted descending > into a nightmare pit. You have upheld political discourse against > this Imperial onslaught. > > I read a thing the other day by Noam Chomsky, whom a lot of people > put on a pedestal. In it Chomsky makes the sweeping generalization > that counter-terrorism "is terrorism carried out by the state." But > that's a very simple minded approach. Because, contrary to what > Chomsky says happened in Yugoslavia, when you fought the terrorists > in Kosovo - who were themselves sponsored by NATO countries - when > you fought them, the Yugoslav Army took causalities rather than > endangering civilians. (10) > > Now one cannot say that *taking* causalities rather than hurting > civilian is the same as *not* taking casualties and hurting the > civilians. So all counter-terror is not terror. There are choices in > the unfortunate situation of fighting terrorism as in everything. And > of course saying, "counter-terrorism is state terror" has the effect > of obscuring these choices and may end up justifying terrorism - > because after all the terrorists are by definition no worse than the > people fighting them. > > *** DISCUSSION IS CONTINUED IN PART 2 *** > > > WWW.TENC.NET * EMPERORS' CLOTHES
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