-Caveat Lector- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:36:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Schumacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LIFE-GAZETTE] Zionism and the Lost Sheep of Israel, Found
I am puzzled by something, Steve. You seem to place the authority of the Israeli Bureau of Immigration above that of Jesus Christ. Did Jesus Christ not say that He came only to find the lost sheep of Israel? That being so, aren't the descendents of those lost sheep of Israel who have kept the faith, the people who should have "RIGHT OF RETURN"? The Israeli Government consists of people who deny the validity of Jesus Christ and according to I John 2:22 are "antichrists". Why would you give final authority to such people? I know that Grahams, Falwells, Robertsons et al do so, but their vain, mercenary motives are apparent to all and I believe they are betrayers of Jesus Christ. FWP/POC On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Steve Schumacher wrote: > Hi > > Actually, I meant below that the Israeli Bureau of Immigration does not > revoke the citizenship of Jewish Israeli citizens who become believers in > Yeshua. Certainly, the Bureau is the final authority on matters of > Immigration, however, its policies are largely determined by the Minister of > Immigration, and having a moderate in there makes a big difference. This > miniterial position is a cabinet portfolio appointed by the Prime Minister > (PM) but it is highly coveted by the religious parties within Israel who > tend not to favor believers and who desperately want to control immigration, > not only of believers, but of Reform Jews, even of Conservative Jews, also > of moderates and of others whom they don't believe to be 'real Jews'. Often, > political bargaining is required to make the alliances necessary to form > coalition governments in a many-party system such as in Israel so the PM > often gives this over to the religious. Whenever a moderate assumes the > position, the immigration is easier for believing Jews. > > The scriptures foretell of a time when after they have been brought back to > the Land, many will turn and serve the God of Israel, and of course, believe > in His Messiah. This is truly a blessed hope, not only for Israel but the > whole world. > > The Sapidis wanted to move to Canada largely for economic reasons -- there > is economic persecution of believers in the Land -- and tried to claim > refugee status which was refused by the Canadian government. Their Israeli > citizenship was not under threat of being revoked. True, believers at > various times are under the threat of punishment for proselytizing, > especially of children, but Israeli-born citizens are not under threat of > losing their citizenships. Citizens under the law of return do face these > threats/risks. > > About the future of a Palestinian sovereignty within the Land, only God > knows what shape and what lifetime that might have. Ezekiel 36 declares that > it would not be long lived. > > Blessings > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Party of Citizens [mailto:citizens@;vcn.bc.ca] > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 4:37 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Christian Zionism 2/2 > > Also I take it you do not accept the Israeli Bureau of Immigration as the > final authority in this matter since they are not "believers" as you put > it below. For example do you remember the Sapidi family who had fled > Israel, fearing religious persecution and were in Vancouver? (I suppose > the law in Israel which metes out jail sentences of up to three years for > those who proselytize another religion had something to do with it). The > Sapidi's were returned to Israel by Canadian Immigration who did not think > they faced serious persecution in Israel (Perhaps you know how they are > doing today). So it wasn't a question of "right of return" as far as > Canadian Immigration was concerned. They had never left Israel,legally. > But had they been Jews living in BC who THEN converted and sought to > become Israeli citizens under the Law of Return, they would have been > refused even if they had a pedigree going all the way back to Jacob, > generation-by-generation. > > The interesting side issue this raises has to do with what happens when > Palestine becomes a sovereign nation living in the same land which is > said to be the ancestral land of the Ancient Israelites. Would people like > the Sapidi's claim "right of return" to Israel or to Palestine? God cannot > be mocked by the 'word games' of humans. Which of those two nations would > then be closer to the identity of TRUE ISRAEL, again BY REASONED ARGUMENT? > > FWP > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:13:35 -0700 > From: Steve Schumacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Christian Zionism > > Hi > > In reply to your question, note this excerpt from my statement below: > "Christian Zionists believe that all Jewish people everywhere regardless of > their ... religion/faith have a right to dwell in the Land of Israel...." > > Of course, the Israeli Bureau of Immigration currently does not recognize > the rights of Jewish believers in Jesus to immigrate to Israel, however, > Israeli citizens who become believers do retain their citizenship. > > The Christian Zionism movement on the other hand does recognize the right of > Jewish believers to emmigrate to the State of Israel. This is true not only > of our congregation but of the Messianic movement as a whole (of which we > are members) and also of many other movements of believers that consider > themselves friends of Israel, and may thus be considered Christian Zionists. > We pray and hope that the doors will soon reopen for Jewish Believers to go > up to the Land again. > > Blessings > > Steve Schumacher > > -----Original Message----- > From: Party of Citizens [mailto:citizens@;vcn.bc.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:56 PM > To: Steve Schumacher > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Christian Zionism > > > Hello Steve: > > Thank you for the reply. There are two other Christian Zionist churches > that I am aware of in the Fraser Valley and they are cc'd above in case > they would like to comment. My understanding of Zionism is that it has to > do with a homeland for the Jewish people as you note below. Also I think > Zionism is a main idea, explicitly or implicitly in every book of the > Bible. But you see, there was a schism among the Jews 2,000 years ago. > Paul did not seem to think he ceased to be a Jew when he accepted Christ > as his Saviour. Otherwise he would not have called himself "The Jew of > Tarsus". Your posting below says to me that you accept only the Jews who > are against the teachings of Christ or do not accept the validity of His > teachings as having "right of return" to the lands of the ancient > Israelites. Thus a Christian descendent of St. Paul would not have right > of return. Is that really the position your congregation wants to take? > > FWP/POC > > On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Steve Schumacher wrote: > > > Hi > > > > I am the webmaster for www.zionmessianic.org. This email was sent > to us so I > > am responding to the question below by Mr. Poley, regarding Christian > > Zionism. > > > > Christian Zionists are Christian people who are Zionists, i.e. who believe > > that all Jewish people have a right to their own homeland and that Israel > > has a right to exist as a nation within its present borders including the > > West Bank. It is notable that Ezekiel 36 mentions the mountains of Israel, > > which span the entire central core of the West Bank, and come > within a short > > distance of the Jordan River itself. > > > > Christian Zionists believe that all Jewish people everywhere regardless of > > their race, color, ethnic background or religion/faith have a > right to dwell > > in the Land of Israel, to which some day the Messiah will return, as > > foretold in Zechariah 14. > > > > For other information on this and other topics, I would refer you to our > > online article section at www.zionmessianic.org/articles. > > > > Blessings in Messiah Yeshua's Name > > > > Steve Schumacher > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 3:37 PM > > Subject: [LIFE-GAZETTE] Re: Israel Defense Forces (fwd) > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:52:25 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: Bruce Lancaster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: [LIFE-GAZETTE] Re: Israel Defense Forces > > > > > > On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Bruce Lancaster wrote: > > > > > > > IDF Homesite -- Basic Information - Doctrine - > > > > Organizaton - Insignia - History - Links - Homefront > > > > Command > > > > http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/main.asp > > > > > > I guess if you are going to talk about IDF, you should also talk about > > > what constitutes TRUE ISRAEL? Jesus Christ said He came only to find the > > > lost sheep of Israel. Christian Zionism would require that TRUE > > > ISRAELITES be Christians would it not? > > > > > > FWP > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/wpWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ***** What would a Model City plus surroundings for "Good Doers" of the "Axis of Good" be like, vs. a contrasting city for "Evil Doers" in the "Axis of Evil"? ***** Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance�not soap-boxing�please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds�is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> http://archive.jab.org/ctrl@;listserv.aol.com/ <A HREF="http://archive.jab.org/ctrl@;listserv.aol.com/">ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
