From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>I need some help from CS contributors to reply. I have put
>my queries in brackets:
>Quote:
>The overall
>crime rate in this country has risen during the same period, and much armed
>crime will be linked to rises in other areas of crime such as the trade in
>illegal drugs.
That's fair comment in so far as it goes, much crime involving firearms
is committed by people who also commit other crimes such as dealing in
drugs. But if gun control *works* then this wouldn't be true. Ergo, ...
gun control does not 'work' if by 'work' we mean be 100% effective.
>The Home Office has not generally sought to put forward an estimate for the
>number of illegal guns in circulation in the United Kingdom
The key word is 'generally', meaning that they aren't so foolish as to
be definitive by saying there are 'x' illegal guns out there.
>However, our levels of armed crime have been generally far lower than most
>Western countries who have less stringent gun control measures than our own.
>While there are some countries that are obvious in this respect, such as the
>United States, there are many less obvious examples. Commonwealth countries
>such as Canada and Australia and European countries such as France, Sweden
>and Switzerland have more liberal firearms controls and higher rates of
>firearms- related homicides than our own. (Help with this whole section
>please -KP)
homicide presumably includes suicide
>I am satisfied that our low rates of armed crime by international standards
>are due in part to our strict controls over firearms. Not only do these make
>it more difficult for most criminals to obtain guns,
Fair comment, at face value. But if we think a little bit more about
it, anyone who has the means can obtain a gun, it's just that he can't
buy one at Tescos. The kind of people who are committing serious armed
crimes are not well-heeled 'professional' criminals, but relatively
uneducated low-life. The degree of 'difficulty' these people have in
obtaining arms is equivalent to the degree of difficulty that the
licensing laws present to the average teenager in obtaining a bottle of
cider from the local off-licence: under 18s aren't allowed to buy
alcohol, so these laws "make it more difficult for most teenagers to
obtain alcohol".
>but they also reduce the
>scope for unsuitable characters to obtain firearms with tragic results.
ditto
>In
>this respect, the school and workplace shootings that have taken place in the
>United States in recent decades show that serious armed crime does not simply
>involve professional criminals. (Any comments - KP)
Same situation here: the various murders that I have worked on in the
past 12 months, by and large, have involved career criminals but I
wouldn't call them professional criminals either.
>The fact remains that the tragic shootings at Hungerford and Dunblane, which
>remain the most serious shooting incidents in this country in recent decades,
>were carried out using firearms that were legally held by the perpetrators.
Yup. The 1997 Acts were designed, not to prevent another Dunblane, but
to prevent another Dunblane being committed by a certificate holder.
>Kenneth Pantling
>--
>"There are other examples", e.g. Norway, a rather closer country.
>Ireland has much tougher gun laws than we do, and their firearm-related
>homicide rate is twice ours.
Ireland is presently undergoing a dramatic increase in suicide. I was
across there recently, and a vet had killed herself with a drug used to
knock out horses. Why? No one knows.
--Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner
"Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel."
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928
--
Actually that comment from Charles Clarke about armed crime
not involving professionals is demonstrated by Home Office
statistics which indicate that of 29 of 41 domestic homicides
from 1992 to 1994 involving the use of a shotgun, the gun
was illegally held.
Hardly an argument for the success of gun control.
Steve.
Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org
List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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