Couple of comments:
1) Please find my post on cygwin-talk that was inappropriate for this list,
for "real-life" applications of cygwin and programming languages for
non-programmers
( this is far from being a tool confined to "academic" interests).
Even for non-programmers who don't want to learn regex's,
most tasks could be performed with a quick e-mail to a "programmer"
( many open sources would probably answer a question requiring a
one line answer but not write a whole text processing program )
2) I think everyone has spent some learning time cursing at sed-
" why did the [ insert term here ] did it do that?"
3) You could, for comparison, go get the java sdk which is also free
and comes with a compiler- I used to use java before getting realizing
scripting languages are much better a large class of tasks. The java
package is more self contained and better documented ( and java
is a "safer" language with more run-time diagnostics).
I have a lot of sympathy with the sentiment ( personally I find swearing at
code like cheering at a sporting event- quite enjoyable sometimes )
but I have been advocating cygwin ( or actually command line text processing
)
to a larger, less technical audience. Perhaps if enough of these people
come to appreciate the power and COMPARATIVELY short learning
curve, resources ( time or money ) would become available to
produce new tools to make things nicer.
Personally, setup.exe annoys me but it does seem to make cygwin install
"one-stop shopping."
I didn't bother looking at the thread beyond this message but is this
a high school project? I learned programming in junior high, I'm curious
to see how things are evolving.
Thanks.
( note new address as of 10-06)
Mike Marchywka
586 Saint James Walk
Marietta GA 30067-7165r
( NOTE MORE NEWER NUMBER )
404-788-1216 (C)<- leave message
989-348-4796 (P)<- emergency only
From: Christopher Faylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: cygwin@cygwin.com
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: Cygintl-3.dll was not found
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 01:59:33 -0400
On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 06:41:51PM -0700, infoterror wrote:
>gdiviney wrote:
>>A one-hour compiler class assignment has become an all-day goose-hunt.
>>Thanks Cygwin developers! Maybe someday I???ll have the opportunity to
>>waste an entire day of your lives. If it weren???t for schools, your
>>aberrant work would have been forgotten long ago.
>
>Agreed.
So you, infoterror, are also a student? That's interesting.
Given the number of people in this mailing list from companies who run
Cygwin, it's hard to see how you could have any basis for your opinion.
>While I like the idea of free software, and giving things away free, I
>think they should be done sensibly and pragmatically. Saving people
>time is fine. Writing off all complaints with "well, it's free, what
>did you expect?" is the same kind of crass capitalism I see in the
>pornography flooding the internet.
Hmm. Now I really understand why your opinion of Cygwin is so low if
you equate giving away software and volunteering time with "capitalism".
Incidentally, your statement that "all complaints" are written off is
provably untrue. Even this resurrected thread shows people who are
willing to help with problems.
What is true about free software is that you, as the user of same, would
be best advised to be deferential and factual if you desire help. It
makes no sense to be insulting. If the software doesn't meet your needs
or doesn't seem to work then outrage is not really, IMO, a pragmatic
response since you could easily alienate the people who could help you.
If you didn't really want help then there doesn't seem to be much point
in sending a negative message at all other than to vent - especially in
this case since you and gdiviney both seem to be novices when it comes to
Cygwin and could easily expose ignorance about the project. It hardly
seems worthwhile to send opionated email only to have people discredit
your opinions when you make a misstatement.
>Also, the open source community is quite insular, and doesn't accept
>advice well from outsiders in all instances.
It's been noted many times that most free software is meritocracy based
and is driven by people who actually do the work. Reading "advice" from
email voices who claim deep knowledge or vast years of experience is
just tedious chore given the fact that it's possible for you to actually
do real work and demonstrate your superior methods. Expecting people to
take advice from a faceless (and in your case anonymous) voice, just on
the voice's say-so, does not, once again, seem very pragmatic to me.
There are too many people with conflicting ideas out there who know that
they are geniuses. You can't listen to all of them.
>Even when we volunteer, for example, technical writing skills or
>project management experience. If it weren't for the somewhat
>unrealistic responses I've seen from open sourcers, I probably would be
>one.
The Cygwin project would welcome additional or improved documentation.
Please do dazzle us with your technical writing skills.
cgf
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