Hi Greg,

Thanks, your two emails were extremely helpful! I especially liked the
ACM resources, your experience with Jitsi meeting of 10-12+ people
(which fits what ACM says), and the CCC talk. All of those I forwarded
along to a few other people. Thanks again for the awesome information.

Doug

On 2020-04-19 12:35, Greg Newby wrote:
> Hi, Doug. Just last week, the ACM came out with a thorough and interesting 
> guide on how to run a virtual conference:
>   https://www.acm.org/virtual-conferences
> 
> They link to an open Google Doc that lists lots of different resources and 
> their characteristics:
>   
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LLLniPkf48CCZyG_BNy1ylF2wXNlztqNEOnzNuMQmJc/edit
> 
> There are also a number of other useful links and appendices. There is no 
> easy answer to the choice, since all the tools have limitations. They don't 
> dig much into security and privacy aspects, but do have focus on how to 
> restrict access only to registered persons.
> 
> Another resource is something I posted to cpunks about earlier. I'm attaching 
> the email I sent. It was a CCC talk that described the different software 
> they used. Mastadon & Jitsi were highlighted, among others.
> 
> Jitsi has a key limitation in how the video streams are sent, which makes 
> larger meetings a problem due to bandwidth management - I experienced this 
> myself, where a meeting with 10-12 people fell apart because attendees were 
> getting dropped, or couldn't receive all the participant streams.
> 
> Another personal experience I have is with Slack. Slack is actually pretty 
> good for live audio/video meetings of 10 or so people. The nice thing is that 
> if you're already having an ongoing Slack chat, you can launch a "call" any 
> time in the same channel.
> 
> It's nice to hear from you. Enjoy!
>  Greg
> 
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 06:24:23PM +0000, Douglas Lucas wrote:
>> Hey cypherpunks,
>>
>> So what video chat options are there that are less privacy violating and
>> social graphing than Zoom, Skype, etc, while still being at least
>> somewhat available to the everyday user? Imagine two use cases:
>>
>> 1. Audiovideo chat between Alice and Bob: they want to watch an online
>> movie together whether by sharing a screen or some other method, and
>> then have sexy times later by same audiovideo chat. Imagine further that
>> Bob uses Linux laptop and knows more or less what he's doing, while
>> Alice uses Windows or Apple or her standard-issue smartphone or w/e and
>> doesn't want to spend her little weekend time off paidwork trying to
>> configure stuff to meet some faraway incel's expectation of flawless
>> fantasy security.
>>
>> 2. A video panel or Q&A being hosted by your local friendly anarchist
>> bookstore. Maybe it needs 3-5 people on a panel talking, their famous
>> faces visible on the screen along with their audio while they debate
>> each on internecine leftist conflicts that distract from far more
>> rational propaganda of the deed, while the 20 people in the audience,
>> including people of all sorts of demographics who have a hard enough
>> time paying their bills online, have their audio and video forcibly off
>> so there's not random beeps and bloops and toddler singing during the
>> panel, but the audience could still type in Q&A questions or whatever.
>> It would also be cool if there was a film screening option -- imagine an
>> anarchist bookstore that prior to covid19 had been doing weekly film
>> screenings offline in their brick and mortar location, but now wants to
>> do something similar online, while making it hopefully accessible for
>> people without intense computer skills.
>>
>> How are Signal and Wire for the above?
>>
>> My big picture understanding has for a long time been that, 1. perfect
>> security is snake oil, the top spy agencies can crack anything if they
>> want given enough time and targetting interest, but that's not typically
>> relevant to the above use cases unless you're a Supreme Court justice or
>> an incel fantasizing about being James Bond, 2. encryption makes data
>> packet size much bigger, and large data size is already a problem with
>> video in cleartext, so there never has been a really good solution to
>> this problem. However #2 was my understanding as of like 5 years ago, so
>> I'm curious if some new solution has come out.
>>
>> It looks like EFF is fairly useless and using Zoom themselves. I suppose
>> if they're not gonna go after something meaningful, like how the
>> corporate voting gear in the US is closed source, they have to spend
>> that sweet Papa Omidyar cash and prestige somehow and produce little
>> guides about how to toggle your Zoom settings. Afte
>> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/what-you-should-know-about-online-tools-during-covid-19-crisis
>> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/cc-backgrounds-video-calls-eff
>> https://ssd.eff.org/
>>
>> Guides by Riseup Networks don't have much on video understandably
>> https://riseup.net/en/security/resources
>> https://riseup.net/en/security
>>
>> Prism Break mentions something called Jami I've never heard of
>> https://prism-break.org/en/all/
>>
>> And yeah, Signal and Wire...? I know everything is fucked but using
>> something less bad for the use cases outlined above seems better than
>> diving headfirst into whatever the worst popular solutions are.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Doug

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