On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Jim Choate wrote: > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, proffr11 wrote: > > > >>experiment measures the dark side of human nature." > > > > As did the Stanley Milgram experiments,Choate extrapolates that "anarchy > > utopia's" are impossible from stuff like this. > > 1st he confuses anarchists and utopians and mixes them up. > > Not at all. The anarchist promise that 'if only...' we'll get rid of > central government and go to a ad hoc contract society all our problems > will be minimized and our solutions will be maximized. That game theory > and economic theory are the apogee of human societal models. If not then what > pray tell is anarchy offering? It certainly looks upon all other forms of > government as flawed, dangerous, and abusive. It actively promotes their > destruction.
So what? Communism looks upon other forms of government as flawed, dangerous and abusive. Democracy looks upon other forms of government as flawed, dangerous and abusive. Fascisim looks upon other forms of government as flawed, dangerous and abusive. Socialism looks upon other forms of government as flawed, dangerous and abusive. Hell, if they DIDN'T, they'd switch their forms of government. What does Fascism offer? What does communism offer? What does Socialism offer? What does Anarchy offer? They're all different. They all have their good and bad points, and in the end that all depends on who is holding the guns. > Explain how people are supposed to work openly and equitably in a > anarchist society when they're all running around cheating behind each > others backs? Um, what? Explain how people are supposed to work openly and equitably in a communist society when they're all running around cheating behind each others backs? Ditto for any other form of government. Since when does one's form of government indicate one's honesty? If your statement were true, then there would be no crime in a democracy because everyone would be honest. Yeah, uh huh. > One of, if not THE, bedrocks of the anarchy creedo is that > people act rationaly once government is removed. Where is this written? Oh, yes, must be in the Declaration of Independance that you keep pointing to? Oh, yeah, inChoatePrime it is, uh huh... > This clearly indicates > this fundamental issue, as presented by the CACL philosophies in general > (they all rely heavily - too heavily - on pedandic game theory), is a > major weakness. Again, who are these mythical CACL's you refer to? I certainly don't know of any on this mailing list. Could you point some out to us, and could you tell us what their philosophies in general are? > People are NOT rational. Interesting overgeneralization. If people are not rational, they they are not rational with or without a government. > Witout government the petty squabbles of everyday > life explode into a hatfield and mccoy escapade, that with todays > technology seems less than survivable. Right. Why don't we change that around a bit with another falacy and state "Without Christianity to keep people honest, life explodes into a Hatfield and McCoy escapade." It's also just as wrong. Morality, and Ethics are independant of governments, religeons, or anything else you'd care to throw in there. > CACL philosophy in general is exatrapolated from a flawed understanding of > human nature. Again, can you show me where the great book of CACL is? Can you point out where CACL philosophy is? > As to being too pessimistic...do the body count for the 20th centry and > then take a look at what is around the corner. Yeah, and the majority of the majority of the that count was caused by (Drum Roll please...) GOVERNMENTS! Without governments, there would be no wars. Without wars, the large scale casualties caused by wars would disappear. > Pull your head out of whatever dark hole you have it in. Indeed! > There is only one answer: Democracy. There is only one answer: GET A CLUE! > Equality for all under the law, with protections of the rights of the > minority (including the one), coupled with the right of individual self > defence. That sure doesn't sound like a democracy to me. In a democracy two wolves and one sheep vote on what's for dinner. > It doesn't promise to solve any of your problems, but it does promise to > keep others from involving you in theirs. Sure it does. Try telling that one to the tax man. Tell the tax man "my finances are none of your business." uh huh...
