Thank you! Great summary, I learned a lot.

/Olle

On 26 Jun 2015, at 00:50, Patrick Ben Koetter <[email protected]> wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I gave a presentation called "One year of DANE - Tales and Lessons Learned" at
> the 34th M³AA3WG General Meeting in Dublin a few weeks ago. Barry (Leiba)
> asked me in an offlist mail to share the slides with you on this list and also
> write about the experience we've made during the last 1,5 years.
> 
> # Slides
> Here's a quick rundown to give an idea what my presentation was about:
> 
> The first part is technical. It starts off naming the issues traditional
> opportunistic TLS faces today. Then they show an approach/plan to solve the
> named issues only to present DANE as a solution next. The slides then show and
> discuss current use cases for DANE (with a strong focus on email) - HTTPS,
> SMTP, OPENPGPKEYS, SMIMEA.
> 
> The second part deals with adoption, possible markets and reasons why the one
> or the other TLD has a better starting position to adopt DANE. It also lists
> things we have learned during the last 1,5 years working with DANE or get to
> hear often when we talk with people interested to DANE-enable their
> infrastructure.
> 
> Download the slides at https://sys4.de/download/dane-maawg.pdf.
> 
> 
> # Experience
> Barry also suggested I summarize our experience with DANE. Here's a list of
> things we've learned or I believe to have understood (sudden moments of 
> clarity
> are a great thing [tm]):
> 
> DANE is server and client
>    DANE may be used by clients and offered to others. This is obvious once
>    you've become aware of that, but people seem to focus at the "offering
>    DANE part" above average. And they seem to fade out the client side.
> 
>    When they realize the server side isn't low hanging fruit they seem to get
>    stuck. Shifting their focus to the client side helps. That's the low
>    hanging fruit (assuming you have DANE capable clients at hand).
> 
> Using DANE in a client is easy
>    You need a DNSSEC-capable resolver and DANE capable client software. It's
>    simple, compared to offering DANE, because these componets are simplier to
>    control and problems stay your own. Failures have comparatively limited
>    effect. Postmasters change settings within their well-known application.
>    They don't need to deal with a DNS server, which they might not know as
>    well or need to talk a hostmaster to do something for them (they don't
>    feel comfortable with).
> 
> DNSSEC-enabling your infrastructure requires careful thinking
>    DNSSEC is about security. The right way [tm] to do DNSSEC on a host is to
>    equip it with a local DNSSEC-capable resolver. If you want to add
>    fallback resolvers (resolv.conf) *all* of them need to be DNSSEC-capable
>    or you might end up with a (bad,insecure,...) DNS reply that would have
>    been suppressed by a DNSSEC aware resolver.
> 
> Careful if your run your own, internal TLD
>    Local TLDs are not DNSSEC signed by default. DNSSEC-aware resolvers will
>    suppress answers unless you DNSSEC-enable the internal ZONE or configure
>    the resolvers to ignore the DNSSEC chain of trust for that particular
>    domain. Test before or you will risc needless service outage.
> 
> Check your firewalls
>    TLSA, SMIMEA and OPENPGPKEYS queries to DNS servers end up in TCP answers.
>    Your firewall must permit TCP on 53. (Most people will probably have that
>    in place if they also serve DKIM. If not this might be the answer to these
>    strange DNS problems... ;)
>    Check also that your firewall doesn't filter RRs. It might drop requests
>    for TLSA and all the other new RRs. It works from inside, but fails for
>    outside requests.
> 
> Offering DANE RRs is all about DNSSEC
>    Offering DANE requires a DNSSEC-enabled DNS server. Everything after
>    DNSSEC-enabling the DNS server is comparatively easy.
> 
> DNSSEC-enabling is the hardest part
>    People are scared to DNSSEC-enable their domain(s). They have to upgrade
>    their applications. They have to clean up/refactor/get a better
>    understanding of their service. (You're up and running in a few minutes
>    and once that works you don't spend time with DNS anymore - unless you're
>    a large player or do DNS for business).
> 
> Registrars don't invest in DNSSEC
>    Offering DNSSEC means to invest in security. It requires to invest in a
>    race to the bottom market where cheaper seems to be more important than
>    more secure. The market interest for DNSSEC isn't great enough at the
>    moment to invest into DNSSEC. (In .nl the goverment subsidizes
>    DNSSEC-enabled domains. Surveys indicate 50% of .nl is DNSSEC-enabled!)
> 
> DNSSEC-capable registrars are hard to find
>    At least in .de its hard to find a registrar offering DNSSEC. One of the
>    question we get to hear all the time is if we could recommend a list of
>    DNSSEC registrars in Germany. To me this seems directly related to the
>    little invest we see in DNSSEC on the registrars side - a chicken egg
>    dilemma.
> 
> Monitor your DNSSEC domain
>    Keep an eye on your zones signature TTL. If it expires DNSSEC-capable
>    resolvers will suppress replies. They will ignore your domain until you've
>    renewed the signature. Monitor your DNSSEC domain. Monitor TTLs and TLSA
>    pinned certificate enddates (see next lesson).
> 
> RR rollover requires more careful handling
>    If you need to roll in a new TLSA (or any other DANE related record) make
>    you do it in advance. Leave the old one and add the new one. Wait two TTL
>    cycles. Give clients out there time to revisit and learn the new RR. Only
>    then remove the old one.
> 
>    If you forget to add the new RR you risk receiving no mail from DANE
>    enabled clients. They check the RR and if you publish an old TLSA, but use
>    a new cert they will not send. That's just how DANE should work. ;)
> 
>    Automate the rollover and make sure the rollover works reliably *before*
>    you upload your zones signing key to your registrar and publicly
>    DNSSEC-able your domain.
> 
> DNSSEC obstructs DANE
>    People who critice DANE usually criticise it because of DNSSEC. They say
>    DNSSEC hasn't been worked on for too long time. The standard should be
>    updated. They say it doesn't provide the level of security it could and
>    should for something as important as DANE to build upon. From their point
>    of view DANE security is directly linked to the level of security DNSSEC
>    provides. I'm no DNS expert to tell how much substance there is in their
>    criticism. If there is updating DNSSEC standards might help to break the
>    ice.
> 
> There's no market for DANE at the moment
>    Everybody seems to wait for everybody else to start using/offering
>    DNSSEC/DANE. Those who DANE enable their clients find only few DANE
>    enabled servers to communicate with. Those who could DNSSEC-enable their
>    domains and could start serving DANE-related RRs don't see the benefit to
>    go through all the required work.
> 
>    We - heise.de (Germany's most popular IT magazine and portal), BSI
>    (Federal Office for Information Security), DENIC (Germanys .de TLD
>    registry) and sys4 - spent about half a year to prepare a DNSSEC-Day.
> 
>    DNSSEC-Day will take place next week Tuesday (June, 30th) between 2 p.m
>    and 6 p.m. (CEST). It will be a (German language only) video livestream
>    (see: http://www.heise.de/netze/dnssec-day) where all four parties will
>    discuss topics related to DNSSEC and DANE. Articles and screencasts
>    complement the broadcast.
> 
> DANE is for machine to machine communication
>    As it is there's almost no support for DANE functionality in end user
>    applications. If there is, the code is not part of the core, but an
>    add-on. It should reside in the core for security reasons. The/some
>    reasons why there's no core support in end user clients at the moment have
>    been discussed on this list.
>    For the time being DANE remains limited to machine to machine
>    communication.
> 
> 
> That's it for the moment. I hope this summary is useful and we will see wide
> adoption of DANE soon.
> 
> p@rick
> 
> --
> [*] sys4 AG
> 
> https://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64
> Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
> 
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263
> Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer
> Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dane mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane

Attachment: signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail

_______________________________________________
dane mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane

Reply via email to