On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 05:53:30AM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> Got it, thanks.
> I was unaware of the dichotomy between distributions in regards to the
> use of sudo / su. This was my first experience with Debian.
> I got the machine running and am currently attempting to upgrade to
> Xfce 4.8. I installed Synaptic and let it run; looking forward to
> seeing where it is when I return home later today.
I am not personally a fan of synaptic. I prefer apt-get from the command
line, but aptitude is certainly more powerful. I also don't do upgrades
from inside X since libc likes restarting kdm which kills the session
(gdm at least is smarter and just signals to restart on the next logout
which is a much saner design).
> Sorry if my report seemed accusatory. I spent several days trying to
> complete the install and was becoming increasingly frustrated.
> Documentation is lacking; that is to say, it does exist, but it's
> difficult to identify the document(s) that pertain to you, and each
> document is so detailed that it takes far too much time to sort
> through to find what you need. It's both quicker and easier to learn
> by trial-and-error or simply ask someone "hey, what's the command for
> this?". I do Google for answers every chance I get and read or skim
> through documentation, but often my questions are not answered.
Linux in a nutshell is pretty universal. Lots of good commands in there.
> For example: I know it may seem asinine, but is there a document
> somewhere on the debian.net site that says "use 'su' and not 'sudo"
> following the install"?? This simple bit of information would have
> helped considerably, especially for a user coming from Ubuntu.
How did you even know sudo existed? Besides nothing prevents you from
loging in as root directly on the console. That is the traditional
method to be root. su is handy, sudo just another way to manage it.
Options:
login as root
ssh root@localhost (if ssh server is installed)
su - (better than just su since the - makes the PATH and other environment
correct for root)
sudo (if you feel like configuring it)
I think gnome and kde both have 'launch a root shell' commands too.
> Aside from the difficulty with networking, the rest of the install was
> relatively straight-forward. The descriptions at each step of the
> Debian installer were sufficient, although some were a bit brief. It
> was much easier to install via LAN cable, and I'd say that part of the
> installer needs a little work (I could not get WEP to work either),
> but otherwise I didn't have any trouble with the installer.
I think part of the problem is that very few people in the past ever
wanted to install over wifi, so that part of the installer didn't get
much work. Go back a number of years and PPPoE users had the same
complaints. I think that works now, not sure.
> In summary, a _brief_, plainly labeled how-to somewhere that contained
> the following would have made everything run much more smoothly for
> me:
> 1. Pointed to the "unofficial" / non-free ISO / IMG / installer /
> whatever (I have clicked around on the site and I still cannot find
> it, someone emailed me a link).
That one is rather hard to find. Of course since it is not official,
the official docs don't seem to want to talk about it.
> 2. Said to use a wired connection due to the lackluster portion of the
> installer.
> 3. Explained that Debian prefers not to use 'sudo' and to use 'su' instead.
Not sure why such a detail is relevant. I have no idea why a new user
would even know what sudo is. If you know what sudo is it is rather
hard to believe you didn't know about su first, but perhaps I have used
*nix for too long to understand that.
> 4. Listed the code for the testing source "deb" links, and the best
> way to add them.
> Honestly that could all be put into 1/4 of a word-document, haha.
To some extent, you probably should be using testing if you don't already
know how to configure apt and find packages. It does occationally break
and you get to pick up the pices yourself so you better have an idea
how to do so.
> I hear you about offering to help rather than complaining. Again, I
> wasn't trying to complain, but rather point out areas of difficulty
> for me that might be used to improve the process for other users. I'd
> love to help if I could but I'm currently in med school and do not
> have much free time. Is there anything I could offer to do? I'm
> somewhat new to *nix but I am a quick learner.
Documentation can always be improved, although there is a fine line
between so much information that is mostly useless to all but a few
people and impossible to find what you need versus not enough details
for anyone.
This doesn't mean there couldn't be a collection of howto's on how debian
stuff is done. I wonder if the debian wiki has any of that.
--
Len Sorensen
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