On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 12:55, Samuel Thibault <sthiba...@debian.org> wrote: > Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, le Mon 05 Mar 2012 12:36:40 +0100, a écrit : >> I must say I find this annoying as well, the Icelandic Dvorak Keyboard >> layout is also missing, so my installation of Debian always goes like >> this: >> >> 1. I choose "Dvorak" > > Why not just choosing Icelandic? (which is already selected by default) > >> 2. I can't type my real name when I create a user, I type "whatever" instead >> 3. I'm limited in the passwords I can pick > > You'd then be able to type your real name and not be limited.
Because that's Icelandic *qwerty*. Which is completely different than Icelandic Dvorak. If I picked that it would take me 2-3x as long to install the system since every time I wanted to type something I'd have to hunt-and-peck type instead of touch-type. To see what that's like, if you happen to use QWERTY, try installing the system with a Dvorak keyboard. >> I hadn't bothered with looking into whether this was a >> debian-installer bug before, I just assumed that it was an issue in >> the layout not being available. > > As said in first answer to the bug, this is on purpose, to avoid a > profusion of choices in the list of keymaps, to keep installing Debian > as simple as possible. We assume that people who know dvorak also know > the traditional layout and will be able to change the layout afterwards > by dpkg-reconfigure-ing keyboard-configuration. > >> I think a much better way to deal with this would be to have a way to >> collapse these options. So when you select e.g. "Norwegian" you get a >> second dialog where you can select the keyboard type, i.e. standard, >> dvorak etc. > > Which was precisely rejected because it'd confuse users which don't know > what "dvorak" is. > >> Or just list them all, the "region and language" dialog in GNOME does >> so and users don't get too confused by that. > > Experience showed they do. And that would carry a lot of translations, > making d-i bigger and unusable in small platforms. This bug is really not about Dvorak, but about the d-i offering only an arbitrary subset of the keyboard layout that a full Debian system offers. E.g. it doesn't offer Colemak at all either which means that anyone used to that layout would also have a really hard time installing the system, even if they didn't need to type non-ASCII characters. Anyway, you seem to be making several distinct points here: 1. That this couldn't be made to work from a UI point of view. I don't think this is true at all. The Ubuntu installer, which I find much simpler than Debian's (even though I prefer Debian when it comes to the end result) allows you to select all the keyboard layouts you get on post-installation. Here's Debian's: CLI: http://i.imgur.com/zPSvv.png GUI: http://i.imgur.com/TjoYU.png And Ubuntu's: http://i.imgur.com/CCsCw.png Ubuntu just selects the most common option, but allows you to change it if you want to. The d-i could do the same thing with another dialog box. Even if all of this was hidden under some top-level "Other" box users such as myself would be able to select it. This is exactly how the timezone dialog works already, there's a *lot* of timezones, and the d-i manages that complexity without excluding some rare timezones and having users update /etc/timezone after installation. 2. That the translations would get bigger I very much doubt that, especially since most of the translations of the descriptions are basically all repetitions, i.e. "$language_name ($variant)". But if that were true having it untranslated under some optional menu would still allow the user to select it. 3. That some experience has showed that the Region & Language dialog in GNOME is too complex, what experience exactly? Anyway, I'm not very interested in winning some argument about this on a bug tracker. The reason I commented here was that I was going to patch the d-i to allow me to select arbitrary keyboard layouts, but I noticed this bug, and I'm not interested in spending time on it if it's just going to get Wontfix'd. Dealing with this is a PITA for me when I install Debian, but having to maintain a fork of the d-i and create custom CD images from it would be an even bigger PITA. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cacbzzx6jtqrxiw9ecenk7-ct4ii6ez71ajsujftcm_jlwrk...@mail.gmail.com