Hi installation masters. This is my experience (dismal, bleak, sad, devastating, frustrating experience) with woody or rather the attempted installation thereof. The even sadder story on my laptop will soon follow.
One short remark. Knoppix (one of the first versions) runs absolutely smoothely on the here mentioned PC as well as on my Laptop; woody simply doesn't (that is X doesn't). I hope the following (still spiced with frustration and disappointment) may help to discover / eliminate any bugs. With no source code available and me despising programming, I can only report the results, not offer any hints on what may be causing the problems. (Should I sound to p*ed of, take this as an indicator of how frustrated I am) With M$ getting more and more arrogant (taking the right to install / disable anything they think - well I wouldn't insist on M$ thinking, but couldn't think of a better word - appropriate) I would like to do the complete change to Linux. Well, the other day (in fact for the last 4 days) I tried to install Woody and did a rm -rf afer a couple of hours. Even more disappointing than Potato. (The last one installing smoothely was 2.0) So let's reiterate (and relive) that terrible / dismal experience and reporting it as I try and do another install. For starters, my system configuration Award Medallion Bios v6.0, 2000 ASUS P3B-F ACPI Bios Revision 1005 PIII (Coppermine, stepping 03), 650 MHz, 256K cache (8 way) DRAM Type : 256 MB SDRAM SPD on Module : Yes Data-Integrity : Non-ECC IDE_0 - Master: IBM IC35L040AVER07-0 -> /dev/hda (40G) UDMA2 - Slave : IBM IC35L040AVVA07-0 -> /dev/hdb (40G) UDMA2 IDE_1 - Master: Maxtor 2B020H1 -> /dev/hdc (20G) UDMA2 - Slave : Pioneer DVD-ROM Atapi DVD-105S 0111 -> /dev/hdd (DVD) UDMA2 PCI - Graphic Adapter : Matrox Millenium G400 AGP Chip : Matrox G400 DAC : internal, Maximal RAMDAC : 300 MHz Memory : 32 MB SGRAM Dual Head capable - Net : Realtek Realtek RTL-8029 at I/O 0xb800, IRQ 12 - SCSI Adaptec Aha2490 Adapter, Bios v1,23, 1996 - ID #0: IBM DCAS-34330 -> /dev/sda (Drive C: (80h) (4 G) - ID #5: Plextor CD-ROM PX-32TS -> /dev/sr0 - ID #6: CyberDrv CD-ROM TW240S -> /dev/sr1 (Teac 24x drive) - ID #7: SCSI-CD Rewritable-2x2x6 -> /dev/sr2 - ID #7: Aha-2940 ISA: - Card-01: Creative VIBRA16C PnP (fully SB16 compatible) IRQs and stuff Bus_No Device_No Func_No Vendor_Id Device_ID Device_Class IRQ 0 4 1 8086 7111 IDE Controller 14/15 0 4 2 8086 7112 Serial bus controller NA 0 11 0 9004 7178 Mass storage controller 10 0 13 0 10EC 8029 Network Controller 12 1 0 0 102B 0525 Display Controller 11 Serial Ports : ttyS0 : IRQ 4, 3F8, ttyS1 : IRQ 3, 2F8 Parallel Ports : IRQ 7, 378 Floppy : 1, 3.5", 1.44 MB Boot order : SCSI -> IDE -> Floppy. With /dev/sr0 being first in line. Monitor : Panasonic TX-2103MA (21") can do up to 1280 x 1024 at 63.7 khz horizontal, 60 hz vertical horizontal range : 30 - 64 khz vertical range : 50 - 90 hz You, rather I, unpack the CDs, notice that we no longer need sources, call the maker (Linuxland, Munich, Germany) and are told that they are setting up a list of those interested in sources and - by the end of next week - will actually start burning them for a small fee. Nice, but that means that I won't be able to create my own kernel afterwards. Weird to sell Linux without sources. Now, after inserting CD#1 into /dev/sr0 we are greeted by this charming and encouraging little message: (If it fails try the other CDs) ISOLINUX 1.67/debian-cd 2002-05-14 isolinux: Loading spec packet, trying to wing it... isolinux; Failed to locate CD-ROM device; boot failed So Debian is still unable to boot from a mixed system, i. e. starting from a scsi-device with ide-devices present. Will work the other way round. No problem with windoze, OS/2 et. al. in such a situation. (not a new bug, present since at least 2.0 (hamm? slink?) So now we try CD #2 Whow, now we get a welcome screen and - via F3 - are presented with a few options: linux, ramdisk{0,1}, floppy{0,1}, and rescue. Not much of a choice for kernels. I could go on here (and already did so in the first try) just to find out that lilo is still unable to write to the correct hard disk in a mixed system (see above). So, the old game again: diable ide ports AND set all hds to 'none'. Inserting CD#1 again and .... rebooting same result, very strange. (Debian based Knoppix e. g. would have no problem here). Yuck. So CD#2 accepting default (linux) and we get: modprobe: modprobe: Can't open dependencies file /lib/modules/2.2.20/modules.dep (No such file or directory) And now the first splash screen ... boot-floppies version 3.0.23 ... built on 2002-05-15 by Adam Di Carlo As I had to disable all drives except /dev/hda I'll have to to without a swap drive. ... Mounting /dev/sda4 Install Kernel and Driver Modules : pressed enter : skipped by install routine (not good) Select Installation Medium : CD-Rom chosen Jumped back to Install Kernel and Driver Modules : pressed enter Jumped back to Select Installation Medium : pressed enter Select CD-ROM drive /dev/sr{0,1,2} : /dev/sr0 chosen Select Debian Archive Path : list chosen (forgot I used CD#2 to boot, still in drive) error message : can't find ... Back to Install Kernel and Driver Modules changed CD for CD#1 enter, skipped again by install routine Found a Debian CD-ROM Finally found drivers (what about telling users which CD to insert for modules?) + nec2k--pci : OK + sb : OK Enter command-Line arguments (What shall I enter here. not the slightest hints) SB 4.13 detected OK (220) sb: interrupt test on IRQ7 failed, Probable IRQ conflict. BUT: installation succeeded. Very strange. 1. IRQ 7 ist for lp0 (lp1) : first printer port. Why should anybody assign this to sb. 2. How can I assign another IRQ (like the more reasonable IRQ 5) 3. I Want to print without polling, so IRQ 7 is mandatory. So far I have always compiled my own kernel (just for this reason, but without any sources I can't but use modules) So second attempt Command-Line-Arguments irq=5 Error message: I/O, IRQ, and DMA are mandatory... installation failed How do I separate entries? Commata, spaces, semicola, cola ????? Now, sb16 requires TWO DMA-adresses 1 AND 5), TWO ports (220 AND 330) How to enter this? /usr/doc/sb* /usr/cod/soundblaster* does not exist. /usr/doc/modconf only contains changelog.gz and copyright (one out ot a few thousand, wouldn't a link suffice) not much more in /usr/share/doc So no information on how to provide command line parameters. Extremely bad. Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 port=220,330 error message too many values for dma (max 1). Strange. We need two. Trying irq=5 dma=1 port=220,330 (hope 1 is correct) error message: invalid parameter parm_port Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 parm_port=220,330 error message: invalid parameter parm_parm_port Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 parm_port=220 error message: invalid parameter parm_port Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 io=220 error message: sb_card: I/O port dc is already in use (dc ????? 16^d + c = 220 Aaaaah) Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 io=0x220 Installation succeeded Hey folks. This is just sick. Now, you have to be a C-programmer to solve such a problem. I hate programming (testing and documentation is fun, programming is just sick). How do you expect Johnny user to figure this out? Why not tell users how to enter parameters? + nls_cp437 : OK + vfat : OK (No description available) : That's a joke, isn't it + nfs : OK (No description available) : That's a joke, isn't it usb-section : error-message for 0.0001 sec, please allow more time for the older (over 20) guys like me. Just wanted to see what usb might be offering. /etc/modules now is: unix ???? where from and what af_packet ???? where from and what ne2k-pci nls_cp437 vfat nfs sb (where does it hide the parameters to sb???? Searching for files with almost the same datestamp as /etc/modules-> /etc/modules/conf) Couldn't the first line of /etc/modules be something like ... all parameters are in /etc/modules.conf ) Network Hostname : dorei DHCP / BOOTP : no I only have a few PC's connected. So /etc/hosts should suffice. IP-Adress : 192.168.0.2 -> netmask : 255.255.255.0 Gateway : 192.168.0.1 Domain name : <blank> Do I need a domain name? DNS Server address : <blank> With several ISPs, how do I enter DNS addresses? ??? where are all those data written to, why don't the respective boxes mention this? Install base system. Select Installation Medium (didn't we have that before and before ...) Archive path (only one available) : /instmnt Make system bootable lilo -> /dev/sda4 Ignore all Reboot (no floppy) enable IDE-drives Reboot Vamos -> Lilo lilo 22.2 ide : all DMA Error Messages: scsi <fdomain> Detection failed (no card) NCR53c416a : no availanble ports found sym53c416.c: version 1.0.0 Failed initialization of WD-7000 SCSI card IBM MCA SCSI: Version 3.2 IBM MCA SCSI: No Microchannel-bus present --> Aborting This machine does not have any IBM MCA-bus megaraid; v1.11 (Aug 23,2000) aec671x_detect: 3ware Storage Controller device driver for Linux v1.02.00.008. 3w-xxxx: tw_findcards(): No cards found. So, Linux seems to scan for several scsi-adapters. How to disable this? scsi0 : Adaptec AHA274x/284x/294x (EISA(VLB/PCI-Fast SCSI) 5.1.33/3.2.4 <Adaptec AHA-294X SCSI host adapter> scsi : 1 host Vendor : IBM Model: DCAS-34330 Rev: S65A Type Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi disk sda at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-ROM PX-32TS Rev: 1.01 Type : CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 4, lun 0 Vendor: CyberDrv Model: CD-ROM TW240S Rev: 1.40 Type : CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr1 at scsi0, channel 0, id 5, lun 0 Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-ROM Rewritable-2x2x6 Rev: 2.00 Type : CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr2 at scsi0, channel 0, id 6, lun 0 scsi : detected 3 SCSI cdroms 1 SCSI disk total ... sr0: NOT LISTED, WHY ????? sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 24x/24x cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray sr2 scsi3-mmc drive: 2x/6x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray Partition check sda: sda1 sda2 sda3 sda4 hda: hda1 < hda5 hda6 hda7 hda8 hda9 hda10 hda11 > hda2 hdb: hdb1 < hdb5 hdb6 hdb7 hdb8 hdb9 hdb10 hdb11 > hdc: [PTBL] [2491/255/63] hdc1 < hdc5 hdc6 hdc7 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What's that? Why? Seems to be Partition table / CHS, but why? insmod: modprobe: cannot create /var/log/ksymoops/20020908.log Read-only file system insmod: /libs/modules/2.2.20/misc/unix.o: cannot create /var/log/ksymoops/20020908121553.ksyms Read-only file sestem insmod: /libs/modules/2.2.20/misc/unix.o: cannot create /var/log/ksymoops/20020908.log Read-only file sestem is this serious? ... Loading modules: unix af_packet ne2k-pci ne2k-pci.c: v1.02 for Linux 2.2 .... ??? af_packet: what's that, who installed that? nek2k-pci.c: PCI NE2000 clone 'Realtek RTL-8029' at I/O 0xb800, IRQ 12 eth0: RealTek RTL-8029 found at 0xb800, IRQ12, MAC-Address sb Soundblaster audio driver Coipyright ... SB 4.13 detected OK (220) sb: interrupt test on IRQ7 failed - probable IRQ conflict nls_cp437 vfat nfs /proc/modules sb 32456 0 (unused) uart401 5872 0 [sb] sound 56384 0 [sb uart401] soundlow 384 0 [sound] soundcore 2452 5 [sb sound] usb-uhci 18220 0 (unused) usbcore 43920 0 [usb-uhci] * ide-scsi 7060 0 * parport_probe 3360 0 (autoclean) * parport_pc 7276 1 (autoclean) lp 4580 0 (autoclean) * parport 6852 1 (autoclean) [parport_probe parport_pc lp] * pcmcia_core 45824 0 nfs 71180 0 (unused) lockd 42420 0 [nfs] * sunrpc 57816 0 [nfs lockd] vfat 9428 0 nls_cp437 3896 1 ne2k-pci 4240 1 8390 5944 0 [ne2k-pci] af_packet 6152 0 (unused) unix 11352 5 (autoclean) Why ide-scsi? Never asked for that. The only DVD drive may also be accessed through directly. Sunrpc? What's that Pcmcia? Didn't we remove Pcmcia during intallation? Parport? I only want to print thru my parallel port. No scanners, No CD-ROMs, nothing else. What can I delete? Debian System Configutarion ... just run /usr/sbin/base-config Just imagine, all thoes usesful bits of information stored in a nice text file. If Possible with something like: You installed xxx, config files are yyyy config programs are zzzz format of config files (no man pages as usual) can be found at aaaaa, the following errors occured during install bbbb, to solve them run cccc or edit dddd. Wouldn't this be just great? Writing down /usr/base/config (hoping not to lose slip of paper) No GMT -> Europe/Berlin md5 passwords enabled shadow passwords enabled create user Q: How secure are passwords like 'I1,just4.want4 in2 No_of_Chars11'. Can they easily be cracked too? (Meaningful sentence + special chars on the same key on all keyboards) delete PCMCIA No PPP for installing Apt-Configuration /dev/cdrom : yuck : changed to /mnt/cd32 = /dev/sr0 fstab : /dev/sr0 /mnt/cd32 iso9660 ro,user,noauto 0 0 mount /mnt/cd32 works entering /mnt/cd32 in Ap-config causes error-message : /mnt/cd32 no block device mounting /mnt/cd32 solves this problem, but apt-config is skipped (very bad) No way back. How do I configure it now? So run tasksel -> no run dselect -> no mail : no configuration, not decided what will be necessary. Will ask in further posting. login man apt man apt-cache yucck, pager is more, no less installed (extremely bad) man apt.conf man apt-config apropos apt -> apt : nothing appropriate (that's ridiculous) Nothing tells me how to create apt.conf. As there was a graphical interface in the install program, it would be nice if it could be used outside the installation process. cd /usr/share/doc/apt cat guide.text.gz | gzip -d | more doesn't yield anything useful either. So, how do I now create apt.conf? The sample under /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/apt.conf however does not contain any references to any files. So what to to. General question: How do I find out how to find out how to find out any information on anything in Debian? I got the official handbook (by Linuxland) by Michael Bramer, John Goerzen, Ossama Othman, pried at 20 Euro, unfortunately in book form, should come on a roll, perforated and on softer paper. Of course, it doesn't tell you how to do anything, but at least, they could make some money, F buddy, sit down and don't you speak up again. So (thinking hard) I tried /usr/sbin/base-config (yep, I didn't lose that piece of paper) For some stupid reason it insists on /dev/cdrom (direct access to a dev file, aaargh) which points to /dev/scd0, why not to /dev/sr0 ??? How to get rid of ide-pci (might cause that scd0). And how to set up apt so it will only access /mnt/sd32 (mount point for /dev/sr0). And why do we have a /cdrom file. Shouldn't there be anything superfluous in /? Same goes for kernel-links (vmlinuz -> /boot/vmlinuz-2.2.20). Shouldn't they only be in /boot. But apt insists on /cdrom. How can I change that to /mnt/cd32 Well now it runs, but defauts to NOT scanning another CD. Should be no problem, after all Debian only consists of one CD and will never grow to more than one. What happens if you accidentally hit no. Will the next scan delete the old file, wrongly append, will everything be fine. Documented where? Apt Configuration : final question: security updates : How to do? Shall I connect as root ????? How to do this with a second PC set up as a gateway? So it's 'no' for the moment. Well, apt seems to be happy now, so let's run tasksel. Aaargh X window system : 3.* ? 4.* ? Task info won't tell. Desktop environment : how to run anything except kde? Like fvwm, blackbox etc. Dialup : Why woffle? What do I need this for? I don't want to cache anything. Why is anacron in dialup, I would expect it in base. So let's try X only. (And have fun afterwards lloking for all the apps one by one) Eh? X installs bc, biff, binutils, bison, cpp, ispell, cpp, gdb? Strange. xdm? I don't want any graphical login. Binutils: Kernel link failure info. Nice. Affects which kernels? 2.2.*, 2.4.* 2.2.17 in Potato (2.2.r0) did link OK). Info should be saved to disk, so scribbling down again. less installs now? less part of X?????? Strange. Locales: What does this do? Only prepare them? Changing anything? Change the way programs run??? Do I need any ot them? When? What for? So no info -> skip? Configuring Locales? Leave alone ? What does this mean. Why doesn't it tell me the current locale? What's none? Will my system run without a locale (if that's none's meaning) C? Chosing C? (Might be damn stupid) Tcpwrappers? What's that? What does it do? Documentation? Where are they. Man ????? SSH: Do I need ssh 1? Sometimes? Never? No idea, let's accept ssh 2 only. SSH SUID: Well yes. (No idea what I'm doing here) Will I need sshd in a small peer-to-peer network? Let's say yes. Xserver-common Debconf man debconf : no manual entry for debconf So What is debconf, what does it do, what can it tell me, can I override it / change it, how can I invoke it? Only specific marked sections are handled by debconf... Man Xwrapper : no manual entry for debconf Apropos Xwrapper : nothing appropriate Well, yes Configuring Xserver-xfree84 with debconf /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 : well, might really be X 4.x let's say yes. How can I change this afterwards? Select the server. Nice. What do I chose here? Whats nv, imstt, apm (power management???), sis? Will mga be OK for a millenium 400? Framebuffer ??? Yes keyboard -> xfree86 German keyboard -> pc105 layout -> de keyboard variant? Gurus only. Must have memorized all variants. No help given. keyboard options: See lots of files not yet installed. Mouse port com1: so /dev/ttyS0 let's try auto (It's a Logitec mouse, but have you ever been able to use one of these using the logitec protocol?) No LCD Monitor : simple -> 21 inches or more Modes 1024*768 only 24 bpp and unpacking. Asking for Linuxland Add-On CD? strange? Didn't ask for Openoffice et. al. finished. startx (I'm still root) (WW) Warning, couldn't open module mga_hal (EE) MGA: failed to load module "mga_hal" (module does not exist, 0) (II) MGA(0): Matrox HAL module not found - using builtin mode setup instead (--) MGA(0): Chipset: "mgag400" (==) MGA(0): Using AGP 1x mode (**) MGA(0): using framebuffer device ... (EE) Screen)s) found, but none have a usable configuration. Fatal server error: No screens found. Whow. What shall I do now, are there any setup programs? What about: Fatal server error: No screens found in file /..../.../filename. Use <this_program> to configure. or Sorry, there is no config program. Complete documentation of <filename> format can be found here. Enter / edit the following section. Wouldn't that be just marvelous? xf86cfg (I know there is this prog, will everybody trying to install Debian know this? Most probably not) Of course, the mouse does not work. Using numpad mouse arrow over mouse icon Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse Option Protocol auto Option Device /dev/mouse (didn't I say /dev/ttyS0) Of course, using the numpad mouse you cannot select / change anything. ls -l /dev/mouse no such file or directory (aaaaargh) CTRL-ALT-Backspace cd /dev : ln -s ttyS0 mouse xf86cfg Whow, a working mouse. Configure Keyboard 101-key (didn't I say 105) -> 105 key Intl Keyboard Layout us (didn't I say de) -> de Select Matrox Millenium G400 Monitor is a Panasonic TX.2103MA (21") Select Monitor that can do 1280x1024 @ 60 Hz (horizontal sync 31.5 - 64.3), vertical sync 50-90 Expert (what's there). Let's click there. May still toggle expert view, but can no longer quit program. write configuration to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XF86Config ??? shouldn't it write to /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 ??? (Answering no writes XF86Cionfig.new to /root. Also very strange). Looks like xf86cfg cannot work on an existing config file. Always starts at nothing. Very bad. cp /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XF86Config /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 server runs, but with a wide black frame. xvidtune : bigger one not supported by hardware. Strange, did work under 3.3.6. (II) XINPUT: adding extended input devide Mouse0 (type: MOUSE) (--) MOUSE0: PnP-detected protocol: MouseMan Could not list font path element /usr/X11R6/lib/fonts/speedo/ removing from list! Could not list font path element /usr/X11R6/lib/fonts/Type1/ removing from list! How do I find out the current resolution????? Fonts are way to small, how to change? And twm is way too ugly. So X is still unusable. And the wide black column to the left side is simply ugly. Whre do I provide the RAM size of my graphics adapter? apt-get install discover creates symlink /cdrom/cdrom0 to /cdrom0 Why???? No suddenly I have /cdrom, /cdrom{0,1,2,3}. Extremely weird. But no entries in /etc/fstab for /cdrom?, only /cdrom. rm /cdrom{0,1,2,3} Of course, there is also /floppy. Yucck Final question. I have only 8 years experience with Linux and a few with Debian (started with 2.0). How shall I ever recommend Linux and especially Debian to anybody, if the installation is still so clumsy, and documentation (especially on how to configure something, the EXACT format with ALL options of config files etc.) is still either nonexistent or only to be found by a long time developer. Well, you could say, it's only for the guru or well informed initiated, but a) the time of gurudom in EDP should have stopped years ago. b) don't you ever speak badly about M$ (it's a piece of sh*t, unsecure, but at least it runs. Well their latest EULAs will take all of your civil / human / whatsoever rights but in most cases it somhow runs and can quickly be installed). As much as I hate M$ I need a system to work with. When I started out on Linux; I tool a pack of white paper and filled most of them with questions, but despite reading all I could on Linux, not a single book, not a single article has ever been able to answer only one question. That's a) terrible, b) a clear indication Linux needs much better, didactically divine documentation (for users, that is people who want to know how to dothings, not gurus, who just want to know that they didn't find anything new in a book / article, already knew all of it, slap themselves on their shoulder and feel wonderful). The only thing to help me was a few years' experience in mainframes and DOS. When I started out on slackware it took me about half an hour to hae the first runing system (finding the right kernel wat the bigest problem). Then I wanted my modem to work and tried almost anything (Suse, Redhat, Caldera, DLD, up to Debian). As Debian 2.0 also installed quite smoothely, I continued using this. But the higher the version number, the worse it's installation routine became. 2.2 was a pain in the a* (at least if youn try to install X). And, as documented here, 3.0 is even worse. I once offered to do tranlations, but so far have not been able to get the stuf out of the CVS repository (because it's only accessible under Linux, so, if you are unable to access the web under Linux (as I was for several years up to shortly before, external modem never yielding more than 100 bits per secons, AVM Fritz PCI card v 2.0 not working under Potato (at least I couldn't find any open source drivers, or any driver for Debian, Suse / Redhat there they are galore)), I couln't help despite wanting to do so. Same goes for documentation, how shall anybody (even me, I like documentation as stated above) do it, with nothing being provided (no I don't read source code). So any help will be greatly appreciated. Links to _good_ and _complete_ documentation in any EU language except Greek / Finnish, as well as Japanese, Korean or easy Russian will be be thankfully accepted. Thanks a lot in advance Axel Schlicht -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]