>>>>> "Adrian" == Adrian Bunk <b...@stusta.de> writes:
Adrian> Yes, it is speculation that other new features (or even Adrian> bugfixes) might appear in the kernel and might become Adrian> mandatory in systemd between jessie and jessie+1. Adrian> But that is a risk, and it is a risk that is unique to the Adrian> systemd option since none of the alternatives is Adrian> Linux-only. [2] Adrian> My whole point is not about kdbus specifically (which might Adrian> even end up in the jessie kernel), but about that (IMHO Adrian> substantial) risk. I'm confused, when I hear you say that this risk is unique to the systemd option and not shared by other options. I would understand that statement if we thought we could avoid systemd entirely. It sounds like we may be able to avoid systemd as pid 1 but systemd is very likely to play an important role in the Debian desktop storpy even if we adopt another pid 1. It seems like if systemd starts depending on a new kernel feature then it might well need that feature even when not running as pid 1. So, when evaluating the opportunity costs of this risk in the pid 1 debate it seems like there are two important mitigating circumstances: * The extent to which upstream will provide stability, reducing the risk * The extent to which we cannot avoid the risk even if we choose another pid 1, reducing the portion of the cost of this risk properly in-scope for this bug. I understand some systems may not need systemd if we choose one of the other options. However saying "if you installed Gnome you cannot upgrade," seems like a fairly unfortunate statement. At some level, we also need to be community players. Since upgrade stability is important to us, we should advocate for it in open-source projects that we depend on. On the flip side, if enough of the rest of the community after having carefully considered our arguments decides that our desire for stability is too expensive, perhaps we need to reconsider our position. I hope we don't need to do that, but sometimes when enough of the rest of the world disagrees with you, you need to move on. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org