Hi! > don't think the right response should be to just fix it one way > for everyone, especially not since those people in charge of hundreds > of systems have exactly one vote, similar to those who just develop > for their own home workstation.
I'm sorry, but this is a very bad argument. People who are in charge of hundreds of systems almost never use the default settings but use something like FAI, Puppet or ansible to configure their systems exactly the way they need them. No one is installing hundreds of computers manually with the d-i images like you would do on a single machine, that would just be nuts. And in these scenarios, changing the default settings of configuration files in packages is a daily routine and nothing special. So, this change has *zero* negative impact for these users. As for the usefulness of this change: I used to work at the IT departmant of a large university in the past and I have some experience in this regard. In fact, this particular change in systemd solves a *very* common problem in these setups which are leftover processes on the computers in the student computer pools as around at least a dozen different users are logging in and out again on these machines per day with many different processes still staying around, and, no, this is not particularly a GNOME problem - it's a general problem which is usually solved with a cron job which kills leftover processes regularly. Some people here suggested that, instead of adding such a functionality to the session manager, affected projects should just fix their software which effectively translates to "People should write bug-free software" which is, of course, an unrealistic goal and therefore not really adding to the discussion in any fruitful manner. Thus, the systemd approach is actually sane and exactly what most admins of larger setups with many users want. And it's not that the systemd developers did not provide an opt-out solution. As it was clearly documented in the release notes, users are free to disable this feature or use systemd-run to explicitly prevent a process from being killed upon logout which is *exactly* what every admin wants: Processes should be killed upon logout by default and anything that should remain running should request an explicit permission from the session management. There is really no other good way to tackle this problem. Admins will neither be able to prevent buggy software (since users could just write and run their own buggy software) nor is it practical to keep a long black list with runaway processes which are being killed upon logout. It's honestly very frustrating to read bug reports like these as they are usually written by people who lack the necessary background or refuse to accept that their particular use case is not the common use case. And I have more the impression that these bug reports are merely written to stir up emotions because, again, the systemd developers dared to touch something in the Linux software stack which has not been touch for years while solving yet another long-existing problem. A reasonable person wouldn't even mind about such changes. They would either just disable the feature completely or use the provided mechanisms to white-list individual processes which takes less time than writing up such a bug report and stirring up emotions. Thanks, Adrian -- .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz : :' : Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
