On Mon, Jan 12, 2026 at 10:04:54AM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote: > Source: gforth > Version: 0.7.3+dfsg-9 ... > I suggest removing gforth from Debian for the following reasons: > > * It accumulated one RC-bug: > #1067376 gforth: FTBFS: make[1]: *** [Makefile:655: build-libcc-named] > Error 1 > * Another bug report claims > #935487 gforth: Packaged gforth version is very old. > which makes me wonder whether our package is helpful for gforth users
Gforth as distributed with Debian 12 or earlier has the following uses for Gforth users: 1) If they just want to run or develop some Forth programs while using Gforth documentation from the web, or other Forth documentation. 2) If they want to build the bleeding edge Gforth from git (for bootstrapping; building from the tarball works without an installed gforth, and tarballs for snapshots are typically released every few weeks). As upstream I see a number of people who are using the Debian gforth package. If you want a more up-to-date release, you could use one of the recent snapshots (the most recent one is always at http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Snapshots/current/gforth.tar.xz). The only reason why it has not been released as Gforth 1.0 yet is that the documentation is not yet completely up-to-date, but given that Debian distributes Gforth without documentation, this should not be a concern. There are a few changes made to functionality while updating the documentation, but they are only in parts that are still experimental and not widely used. OTOH, as someone who invests a lot of time in writing the documentation, I am of two minds about the benefits and drawbacks of the official Debian package, which comes without the documentation. I have also invested a lot of time in the performance of Gforth, and Debian's default use of --no-dynamic disables much of that work; but that affects only people who use Gforth for programs that consume significant time. > In case the package should be kept in unstable, please evaluate the > RC-bug listed above. > * If the bug no longer applies, please close it. If it is closed, check > whether the fixed version is correct and adjust if necessary. Bernd Paysan (also upstream) wrote an answer to this bug report, where he indicates that the development version contains a solution to this bug, so one fix may be to switch to a recent snapshot. > * Is the bug really release-critical? If not, please downgrade. People can do and do a lot of stuff in Gforth without using libcc, so I would not classify it as release-critical. But I do not know what criteria Debian uses for this classification. Bottom line: Gforth users on Debian can build Gforth from the tarball or use one of the .deb packages that Bernd Paysan builds (see https://gforth.org/). The benefits are: 1) You get documentation. 2) You get the new features (albeit some are experimental). 3) You get the full speed of Gforth. If Gforth is removed from Debian, users will be forced to take this path. If Gforth on Debian continues as before, and users do not need the advantages outlined above, they can use the Debian gforth package. If Debian switches to a recent snapshot, you get advantage 2), and, depending on how you do it, maybe also 3) and 1) (but probably not 1, because the lack of documentation is intentional on the part of Debian). - anton
