On Friday, 26 Sep 2003 09:43:26 -0500, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 02:39:01PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > > On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:20:21 -0400, Nathanael Nerode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> s > > I understand that debian-legal acts in an advisory capacity, > > and is very useful to maintainers who need advice on licensing > > issues. And I shall stipulate that there is a rough consensus on > > debian-legal about the GFDL. > > This decision to exclude GNU documentation from Debian, given > > the sheer volume of GNU software in Debian, is likely to be > > controversial. And we need to have a common stance on this issue. If > > this is all so very obvious and clear cut, why is it so hard to first > > get a position statement from the DPL, and possibly the release > > manager? > I think there is a fairly clear position statement on this from the > Release Manager, embodied in the use of the sarge-ignore tag instead > of trying to reduce the severity of the bugs in question. I.e., Attaching labels that are the purvue of the release manager to certain bugs does not, in fact, constitute a position statement. All that means is that the release manager does not consider theissue important enough to stop the release -- indeed, were he concerned that things violate the social contract, you would think we would delay the release, neh? > they are being regarded as non-RC policy violations. (Or at the > very least, it means AJ is unwilling to stick his foot where you > just have by declaring them non-bugs.) I consider the fact that we are not delaying the release to be a nod towards not thinking these are DFSG/social contract violations. > > Why should we not have a common solution? Should I just move > > make, make-doc, and Gnus to non-free, in accordance with the spirit > > of upstreams desires (do not separate the political text from > > software)? > > > Some have asserted (incorrectly), that the binary packages > > would be no different, and end users should see no change. The > > fact that people make such assertion shows that they have not > > investigated the amount of changes to the packages that would > > result, not the decrease in utility. > *I* assert that because the GFDL clearly does not comply with the > DFSG, and because it is not clear that a GR to supplement the DFSG > with a set of DFDG will pass, maintainers of packages containing Well, nice to know you have telepathy and an ability to predict the future. And I suppose you, as with all of us, have the right to assert anything you wish: I assert that hot mango chutney is better than sweet mango chutney. > GFDL works should take responsibility of their own accord and start > looking for a GFDL-less solution sooner rather than later precisely > to avoid this decrease in utility. That, too, is a nice sentiment. The rich nations should make a better effort to fight global poverty. And people in the middle east should live in harmony with nature and each other. I am not sure that that would improve make, but who knows. > > It is presumptious on your part to close a license bug without a > clear consensus that the license *is* ok. There is an outstanding I close bugs on my packages all the time based on my judgement alone. If this is presumption, then indeed, friends, I am guilty. > issue here, and there is a need to be able to track the packages > affected by this issue. Individual opinions on the freeness of the > GFDL are secondary to this. If changing a large number of packages > can no longer be done without official sanction, then neither can > bugs such as this be considered closed without a similar official > statement. So create a WikiPage. The BTS is there to resolve issues that users have with make, and in my opinion, make is not buggy -- at least until the DPL, or the developers by the means of a position statement make a determination to the contrary. I am closing the bug again. You can, or course, call for the tech ctte to override this, or a GR, or get me removed from the project, as you wish. manoj -- Whenever anyone says, "theoretically," they really mean, "not really." Dave Parnas Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/> 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C