Wow. This is depressing. Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
Group 3: Systemadmins - Yes, there are a lot of sysadmins out there, who are not able to see the difference between Linux and Windows server systems. IMO these people will bring the most power into debian, if you can motivate them.
Without wishing to cast aspersions on your 15 years' experience, I can tell you that there are a lot of system admins out there who want a *nix, and I am one, and so are many of our clients. To give you an example, a recent client ran around 50 fairly chunky servers, with a file hit rate peaking at 2000 per second. Yes, second. I mention the hit rate because I want to show they were, and still are, a major site though I can't mention the name. This was all under linux and needed to be so, and it was all adminned - as is common, at least amongst the people we deal with - by editing files. Whilst I do not doubt there are many more windows admins to whom a hard task is finding which box to type the broadcast into - if they even understand the idea of using a non-default broadcast - you do point out this class of users could be a tough nut to crack. I might ask, however, how are you serving *nix admins? A lot easier bunch to please with Linux I think. I for one have delisted (for the moment anyway) Debian for our server installations after Lenny, because I don't like the way it's headed, and I know a number of people who agree with me. But take a look back at what happens if a system admin complains about something. There's a lot of "it ain't going to happen" "you'll have to maintain that yourself". It's not exactly welcoming to make one's opinion known. If Debian is serious about attracting new users, I wonder if listening to the current ones might be a point to start. Frankly, to my - admittedly cynical - eye, the direction I see Debian taking is that of Ubuntu. Good for "ooh, shiny" and "by developers, for developers". Weak on supplying a well-known, well understood administrative interface. Using files which we can edit over an ssh session, since our servers are in a colo centre half a day's drive away. It's all very well wondering about attracting new users, but a fundamental point to be addressed here is, are those working "at the coalface" going to "buy in"? (sorry, been talking to mamagement again) If the response to requests to keep functionality active or to add to it is going to be "the devs aren't interested, do it yourself" it's pointless, since most users in the classes you name, and - yes - even old skool *nix admins like me, aren't capable of programming everything on their system in every language used by themselves, even if they had the time. That doesn't mean they don't have opinions about what should be "in the box" nor that those opinions are worthless. As has often been pointed out, no-one has the right to attempt to force what someone does in their spare time, and quite rightly so; but if the devs are only interested in developing to their own needs, well, inevitably people will drift to systems they consider more suitable to, in turn, their needs. Thanks for bearing with me, especially if you disagree, and HTH. -- Chris Jackson Shadowcat Systems Ltd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c4742b1.9060...@shadowcat.co.uk