-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 02/11/2014 10:15 AM, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 09:05:48AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: >> I do not trust the systemd project to not do things I consider bad >> or even insane, because they've already done such things, and they >> show no regret or repentance over having done so. > > You're talking about yourself and none of what you say contains > specifics. I'm talking about myself, because I'm my data point at hand, and because I can't claim to speak for anyone else. This seems obvious enough that it should not need to be stated. I intentionally did not provide specifics, for several reasons, including but probably not limited to: * The exact nature of the things I find bad is not relevant to the question of trust, which is what I wanted to point out, and what I thought there might be value in discussing. * I'm far from good at presenting the specifics in question, or at advocating/arguing for them, and trying to do so anyway before an actively unsympathetic audience would be stress I don't need. * Specifics have been gone over many times, here and elsewhere, including by people far better at presenting and arguing them than I am. Going over them again would not help; I'm not going to succeed in changing your mind about anything with them, you're extremely unlikely to succeed in changing my mind about anything in response to them, and such a change on one side or the other nothing would in fact change. * It seemed quite likely that if specifics were brought up at all, the conversation would be diverted to discussing those specifics, rather than the question of trust which I was attempting to shine light on. The specifics in my case take various forms, but in the end they all boil down to a bare few principles. At bottom, this is a values disagreement. I value certain principles highly enough that I would reject some decisions which the systemd project has (or very strongly appears to have) taken. For the systemd project to have taken those decisions demonstrates that they do not value those principles as highly as I do. Thus, I cannot trust that project to place what I would consider to be appropriate value on those principles when making future decisions. Advising me to trust them anyway, without taking this disagreement about the value of those principles into account, is not constructive. (Exactly what those principles are, and/or what decisions I would have rejected because of them, would indeed be necessary in a discussion about trying to resolve that disagreement. However, I am not presently trying to do that; I have essentially concluded that doing so either is not possible, or at least would require more investment than I care to devote. What I am trying to do is draw attention to the fact that the disagreement really is about the value of principles, regardless of what those principles are.) - -- The Wanderer Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJS+49JAAoJEASpNY00KDJrqVQP/1cLmZ0XGzm4gjh/SUpsg4M5 F+MEbp2FgI4SwEqZ2IF+uhzsOg8BIR6g9CjPSoXovHs3qcSUBs4WFIV3UXHRE4qj QOnAvF7nMYrtNCyViajVAwrg9jugJeTWEfClTRZqfhrojJT26tyglbJCAkY7ik8i +AeBpaoziDkSaynZJQKQJzRFkZIKtu5Ed4vxYnwnIn2YXRY+1pn5x7GdrEfey+LR ijLVg7CgBFl751FXkHNqoGDFvJ7SAxC7X52jkneFrKpZxvwO5QjFC/kQkS6MMBPd ctRBhHRC9gtE7+i5KqqqVoVL9jaxGfWjHBXtcityuEMb8bxMd0S97w7q5JubYr8w 1OSP3gOeaprxVapSWQtdS8qe8LO8CoSnwVxt8L6prfdA/MRXm7cJAkN2Yh1Z/kKy GaDbb6Bxb3zu9gfcr0A7lNigiNARGjOupwrviMUAQFNbBwJWPf9rkrg6zddAOV7t 1M+jxnqiyNIHG+PXQ06SAIjZmNXpbkCm+oI5SGU4geSlyauwC3Kbd1pBBEk9ulcI UumQQz+PyRgC0yFF4FD/Xt1TsppnmEB8zjWvcQSah9KRY/jrb6u+io33r47iqFBg TggvCvXHTYPDwGFauv8cW/mIKt0T4lguAEEBCxX6hl/Y30+xbxqBP3dimK3eeO2z OnS8kAx+pCVBYJD03Qls =GU8Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52fb8f49.4040...@fastmail.fm
